NEW MID ENGINED V6 (LITTLE BROTHER)

Congrats on your F8 order . Because that's it the last V8 . Now if you want an V8 its gonna gonna be an electric SF90. With the big price gap. IMO all the V8's will go up.

 

yeah sure. Whatever you say. Their aluminum chassis are soo good, this is why they use them foe their F1 cars right?

 

sure - it is a bit harsh but look- the F8 is what-350-400 pounds heavier than the 720? Do we even want to discuss the weight of the SF90?

look I love Ferrari. I’ve owned several and will buy more in the future I’m sure. But the facts are that driving a carbon tub is a better experience. The cars are lighter, handle better and performance is superior.

But as was stated above, Ferrari has no reason to invest and innovate with carbon technology. They sell every car they make. They don’t care that their cars aren’t the fastest or have the highest performance. Why? Because people line up to buy their cars nexuses a Ferrari is a Ferrari.

 

On the carbon tub topic, I lean more with SoCal to az:
-The LaFerrari is a carbon tub for a reason, best chassis development. The LaF replacement will be a carbon tub - guaranteed.
-Ferrari has invested heavily in their aluminum production facility, cost/benefit to change that over
-To the point early, why incur the expense when you are selling your automobiles as is under aluminum chassis structure
-Take out the Urus addition, and your selling more cars than Lamborghini and McLaren, therefore, you need the production efficiency to make the chassis and carbon tubs for example in both the V12 models and mid-engine V8 models could possibly have never kept up with production demands.

On the contrary though, these cars are all so good, to feel the subtle differences “significantly”, especially in Coupes, takes a skilled track driver. With the disclaimer that you do more so feel the differences in Spiders somewhat that need chassis reinforcement when they are not carbon tubs. In that space, McLaren has the game on lock down with their Spiders. The GT2RS and 3RS are aluminum, and it has not slowed down Porsche developing a hell of car. There are also many other elements outside of the chassis that make cars attributes and advantages, for example, while McLaren may run the carbon tub throughout their entire line-up viewed as superior, the twin turbo engines from Ferrari have no noticeable lag compared to Mac engines. Trade of of pros and cons in many areas is my point beyond just the chassis development.

 

Tried to catch up on this interesting thread with a lot of reading, forgive me, my apologies, if somewhere in the 51 pages there is a uniform consensus on the below...

-F8 Coupe/Spider will be model year 2020-2022, with no VS variant as the majority held belief of forum members
-LB will be unveiled possibly in 2021 sometime and may begin production for model year 2022 deliveries and be in production along side the final 2022 MY of the F8.
-Portofino, Roma, V8 Lusso will all be downsized to the V6 twin turbo hybrid at some point
-V12 line will end in 2023 MY with the 812 VS variant - after that, no more V12’s?
-V12 line will essentially be the V8 Twin Turbo Hybrid engine currently in the SF90; V8 Twin Turbo line will ultimately be the V6 Twin Turbo Hybrid line.

 

1- correct. Insiders have confirmed there is no F8 vs development going on. Time will tell what Ferrari does but they need to switch over to hybrid due to emissions regulations. F8 was a stop gap vehicle - wasn’t suppose to happen but LB got delayed and they couldn’t continue with the 488.

2- It appears an April reveal is likely for LB with production starting after the summer break.
3- It appears that way but you also have to throw in the Purosangue. When that is revealed and what it is remains to be seen.

 

The unveiling of models we all agree is elevated with the notion being that more models but fewer numbers of each being the strategy. However, they seem to be unveiling models when the beginning of production seems to be so far out. Perhaps that is to appease the analysts on Wall Street that the order bank is “so back logged” for x years to come.

 

I think that happened with SF90 because of Covid. Most other models seem to be a spring release with production start after the summer break and first deliveries early in the following year.

 

Seems like Ferrari is developing a brand new V12.( rumors ?)
The 812 SF replacement is a mystery for now.

 

Well, they use it for their hyper cars. This should tell us something about what after Ferrari is the superior material. Plus as I said before it is not only about things you can measure. If I want a mid-engine Ferrari I want a race car experience for the road. For 30 years or so all top tier racing cars have been using carbon chassis so it is definitely something I expect in the same way as a race car inspired, high-revving engine. While it might be right that from an objective point of view a carbon tub would potentially add only a marginal performance advantage over an aluminium chassis in a road going supercar, a Ferrari is an emotional purchase. As such it is all about what makes the car feel special and for me a carbon tub is an important element to that.

 

I’m gonna play devil’s advocate...

Let’s say they build a V6 hybrid engine that when put into an F8/488, you cannot tell the difference between it and the original V8 by sound, feel, performance, etc. Would you still scoff at it being a V6 hybrid?

 

I might be in the minority but I’m super excited about the V6 hybrid. I’m not afraid of the hybrid technology by any means. We’ve had some amazing supercars of the past that were hybrid. People don’t like change. But when change comes it always leads to growth and advancements. I don’t know if you recall when they change the Fchat website, people were up in arms about it. It was unfamiliar the new layout was not to their liking and people freaked out, but look at it now I think it’s one of the best websites out there.

 

McLaren which I absolutely admire for its weight saving ethos is absolutely brilliant with the CF tub. However they were a "clean sheet" car company and could build the cars as they desired. Ferrari isn't but 100% they care about the cars performance (otherwise why send a team to a media test day etc etc.

My understanding with the new modular design the bulkhead (which takes most of the weight) is CF while the front end is aluminium. I am sure they could have followed McLaren (btw Porsche & Lambo haven't either) but technology wise chose not to.

 

Very fair point. But you would have to think that they would have done more carbon with the SF90, or LB (remains to be seen). These are the next gen models.

regardless- I think there are probably a million reasons why Ferrari doesn’t want to do a carbon tub, but I think you and I and anyone else that has driven the cars will agree that carbon tub is superior technology.

 

1000% not too mention the safety aspect of a CF tub.

 

Agreed , and fact is McLaren doesnt have the number of models that Ferrari has.

Ferrari will shortly release the 4WD , like it or hate it it will also be another model. Here McLaren will miss out BIG TIME. All the other companies do have a 4WD.

I highly doubt that McLaren if they wanted a piece of this pie they will do a carbon shell.

 

Mclaren has stated numerous times they will not build an SUV.

 

Hardest one to guess is the F8 VS
I believe the Lusso will be dropped when the 4WD comes out.
V12 I find it hard to believe they will drop the V12 in the LaFerrari replacement but all other cars yes , its gone unless they are somehow allowed to keep that in very low volume.
Its already reported that the SF90 is the flagship. A V8 and Ferrari has successfully increased the price of a V8.
For the price of a V8 today you will only get a V6 and that will also increase in cost.

 

Ferrari still wants to be seen as exciting , new models , more models , desire , make less cars than what are wanted.

Ultimately to increase sales for their stock holders.

 

No need to be Devils Advocate because that's what they are doing. All the test cars showed a 488 GTB shell.

The F8 will be sold along with the LB. The LB could be slightly dearer but that's it and you will have the option of either car.

There wouldnt have been many to sell their Pista to go into a SF90 . Likewise i doubt many will pick the V6 LB over the F8. It will be the new comers to the brand.

V6 Ferrari is being forced on us. Thats the point that the F8 like it or hate it its the last new V8 you will be able to by in mid engine.

 

I would even go so far and say that I welcome the V6 as I expect it sound better than the flat plane V8 which has very little mechanical sound from the engine itself. It’s highly dependent on the exhaust system to generate sound. The V6 has more mechanical sound and will suffer less from turbos, GPFs etc.

 

A bit of a misleading question, no? Why didn’t Porsche use steel structure in their LMP1 cars? Why does McLaren not use RTM composite structure with aluminum front and rear sub-frames in F1? Why is not every airplane made from CF?

Has it really been shown that a CF tub with aluminum sub-frame/crash structure is safer than all-aluminum chassis car?

McLaren went into the super car market with no history except for a handful of F1 road cars and their F1 exploits which included being (one of) the first to use carbon in F1–their first tubs were in fact sourced in the US. So they adopted the CF tub as their central marketing feature, hired on an Italian ex-Ferrari composite chassis expert to lead the engineering on this and have been making every car since with a RT molded CF tub—with aluminum extensions front and rear. So not exactly in the same league as the million-dollar HyperCars and F1 cars that use hand lay-up CF.

 

That’s a fair point. McLaren’s carbon approach is not the method used as in F1. However the Alfa and Maserati tubs are hand layered as far as I know and therefore more advanced, right?

 

the answer to your first question is cost.

For the second question - I’ve seen some horrific crashes with mclaren where the car was mangled beyond belief and the driver walked away. I don’t have data to support this but in a similar accident in a aluminum chassis car, I don’t think the passengers would have been as fortunate.

 

I know someone that wrecked his McLaren, his passenger died and he himself was in the hospital 2 months severely injured. He said the carbon tub shattered to pieces.