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NEW MID ENGINED V6 (LITTLE BROTHER)

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by ajr550, Feb 28, 2019.

  1. red passion

    red passion Formula Junior

    Mar 4, 2012
    606
    Hockenheim, Germany
    Some rumors brought to FChat even hinted at a new V12 beyond hypercar or Icona models
     
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  3. nonbita

    nonbita Rookie

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  4. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
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    Not sure but I think it could be a simple F8.
     
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  5. dustman

    dustman F1 Veteran
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    This would be tragic as nothing remotely interesting coming from Ferrari going forward. End of the era.
     
  6. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    I think you should wait to see the cars... ;)

    ciao
     
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  8. dustman

    dustman F1 Veteran
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    I dont buy sports cars that only look good but have no soul (for me that is loud soundtrack).
     
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  9. red passion

    red passion Formula Junior

    Mar 4, 2012
    606
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    So I read between the lines that you have faith in the future of Ferrari, correct?

    As you are for sure someone with a little bit of insight in Ferrari, what is your take on the carbon chassis discussion? What do you think when will we see a series production Ferrari with a carbon tub?
     
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  10. Ferrari Marketing Guy

    Sponsor

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    The way out for Ferrari (and other sports car makers) is the Synthetic Fuels push. Ferrari is working with Shell on this, and F1 will use all synthetic fuels in the near future. These fuels are just as "green" as EV and will make all of the existing (and hopefully future) cars CO2 compliant.
     
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  11. therryzsx

    therryzsx Formula Junior

    Dec 2, 2011
    642
    Why Ferrari don't create car similar to Porsche GT3?? Naturally aspirated engine with small displacement, power around 450-550hp and max rpm red line at 9k or 10k. Instead they create another turbo car with excess power around 700 hp.
     
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  13. wthensler

    wthensler Formula 3
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    Not sure about this. An ICE, regardless of the fuel it burns, emits CO2 as part of its necessary combustion process. Pure chemistry. The EV does not. What synfuels may claim, at best, is that they are carbon neutral, which may be a bit of a stretch if they are looked at holistically.

    Synfuels generated through purely renewable energy (Porsche is looking at wind turbines to drive their chemical processes) are currently not viable on a large scale. So, who gets the synfuels? Maybe Porsche and Ferrari will be making fuel for themselves?

    From an efficiency standpoint, the ICE can never match that of an EV. Never. Google Carnot cycle and one can begin to understand an ICE’s limitations due to physics. It’s indisputable.

    Bottom line - far more energy is needed to propel an ICE than an EV.

    So I guess it’s how one defines ‘green’.
     
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  14. dustman

    dustman F1 Veteran
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    Exactly. Doesnt matter if it isnt the quickest...wrap a sexy body on, nice exhaust and done.
     
  15. Thecadster

    Thecadster F1 Rookie
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    I’ve been saying the same thing for a while now. Imagine a stripped down, lightweight mid-engine platform that features the engine from the 812. Perhaps it looks similar to this.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Imagine how many they could sell and how much they could charge. RACE would double.
     
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  16. red passion

    red passion Formula Junior

    Mar 4, 2012
    606
    Hockenheim, Germany

    When both synfuels and the electricity used in an EV are considered green, the ICE still has the advantage of not consuming as many hard to get materials.
     
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  17. red passion

    red passion Formula Junior

    Mar 4, 2012
    606
    Hockenheim, Germany
    At the end it’s basically all about two indicators. 1. Is it considered as carbon neutral and 2. Is it financially viable? For 1. we can already say yes it is and for 2. it remains to be seen.

    The discussions about efficiency etc . are kind of pointless as all the scenarios for synfuels include a global sourcing strategy that consider the input energy as an unlimited resource as production can be anywhere on the globe and therefore there is no local energy compromised that could be used more efficiently in EVs. The question is just can they make a business case out of that.
     
  18. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula 3
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    Sorry, this is pure fantasy, no "standards body" has approved of this method, plus, you might want to review the Euro 7 specs (not yet ratified), it calls for elimination or near elimination of may currently unregulated "pollutants". Not only that, but billions of gallons per year will be required in EU alone, the entire production of gasoline for EU would have to be of this 'synthetic formulation' to guarantee CO2 levels are consistent regardless of where the vehicles are fueled. Not to mention Syn fuels are super expensive, could be $30/$40 per gallon before taxes...(but other currently unregulated pollutants maybe remain, making the entire gambit completely pointless)

    https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1130400_synthetic-fuel-is-how-porsche-intends-to-keep-its-classics-on-the-road

    and, because hydrogen is utilized it will not scale well at all (i.e. will never displace current gasoline production, or if it ever did, would be decades in the future - time required to build new refineries)

    https://dieselinformation.aecc.eu/upcoming-euro-7-emission-regulations-to-drive-europes-zero-emission-mobility-goal/

    excerpt:

    Secondly, under the Euro 6 & VI regime, emissions limits and test procedures can vary according to the type of vehicle. For instance, petrol cars are permitted to emit more carbon monoxide (CO) than diesel cars, whilst higher levels of nitrogen oxides (NOx) are allowed from diesel vehicles. There are also discrepancies between the limits from gas-powered and diesel-powered trucks. The future Euro 7 should ensure these criteria are equally important for all applications.

    A better understanding of vehicle emissions has demonstrated that some currently unregulated pollutants and greenhouse gases should also be considered. Adding limits for harmful ultra-fine particles smaller than 23 nanometres (PN10), ammonia (NH3) and nitrous oxides (N2O) to the new Euro 7 regulation will provide reassurance that vehicles are as clean as possible.


    Apparently, the goal of Euro 7 is to completely eliminate combustion motors and CO2 emissions are only part of the current parameters of Euro 7, once ratified we will know more.

    https://epha.org/new-euro7-standards-the-final-nail-in-the-coffin-for-polluting-vehicles/

    excerpt:

    The new Euro 7/VII standards will contribute to a modal shift from car-based cities to walking, cycling, and public transport, wherever possible.
     
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  19. MANDALAY

    MANDALAY F1 Veteran
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    The Roma / Portofino models will always be detuned as they are wet sump motors :(
     
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  20. Napoli

    Napoli Formula Junior

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    That would be the end all. In Grigio Ferro, of course. :cool:
     
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  21. MANDALAY

    MANDALAY F1 Veteran
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    You have a spare 5 M get Ferrari to build you what ever car you wish.
     
  22. MANDALAY

    MANDALAY F1 Veteran
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    Dealer. Yeh i know but i believe them. The reason the SF90 is about 1.1 million here . The F8 starts at 530 K . There is too big a gap. The LB will come in about Pista Pricing 730 K Which then gives room for the Portofino to go up and down at the bottom the Roma.

    Like i said many say the LB is the replacement of the F8 etc but really its just a new model
     
  23. Jo Sta7

    Jo Sta7 F1 Rookie
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    The green ppl are really going to ruin the world in the name of saving it
     
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  24. ipsedixit

    ipsedixit Formula Junior

    And what engine would Ferrari put in this mythical unicorn of a car?

    The V8 from the 458/Speciale? It would not pass current emissions or sound.

    So would Ferrari develop a brand new NA V8 (or, gasp!, a V6) for a low production, low demand* car? Not likely. Or, more accurately, most definitely not likely.

    (*Yes, low demand. While the peanut gallery here on FChat love this car, the rest of the public that Ferrari caters to and actually cares about (i.e., those that watch and/or own RACE), will never green light such a project -- either in terms of engine development or actual concept-to-production car.)
     
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  25. Senna1994

    Senna1994 F1 World Champ
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    Albert, thank you always for the information.
     
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  26. MANDALAY

    MANDALAY F1 Veteran
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    Money talks. You can have anything you want. As long it uses one of the current engines.

    I dare say a V12 mid engine F8 would go down very well.
     
  27. MassAppeal

    MassAppeal Karting

    Mar 28, 2018
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    The chances are that they would have to stretch the chassis, or develop a new one to put the V12 into the F8 sized car. This would mean more R&D, possibly even a new carbon chassis/tub to offset the weight gained from the V12. Just look at some of the stretched mules in this thread.
     
  28. MANDALAY

    MANDALAY F1 Veteran
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    My comments are based on what i was told enquiring about having a car made just for you. A one off your design, obviously with a little help.
     
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