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Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by ajr550, Feb 28, 2019.
Because the Artura might dyno 780 HP?
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How this is going that Ferrari and McLaren build simultaneously so similar cars? They spy each other?
There's a war goin' on and we, as passionate consumers, are the beneficiaries.
I think yes and no.
SF90 and LB will probably use the same basic chassis but LB will probably be produced without the carbon bolt on structures (maybe it also gets them). The SF90, even though it has a V8 is not a 488/F8 descendant from a product placement point of view. This is a premium/flagship product produced in much smaller numbers and lower everyday usability (the trunk is useless even for a weekend trip) meant to compete in the price bracket of Aventedor SVJ and McLaren Senna. SF90 is positioned as a supercar.
LB in my mind will take on the mantle of the volume mid-engine sportscar from the F8. It will be lighter than the SF90, be rear wheel drive only with a much larger trunk due to no front battery and generally be a more everyday usable car.
I agree that the Roma and the Portofino will probably switch to the V6 hybrid powertrain and I am guessing so will the SUV. The delay in the unveiling of the LB is the reason for the delay in the SUV as well since they share (imho) the same powertrain. The one thing that I can't guess is whether the SUV will get the V8 option or not.
THE SF90 is the new 488 "replacement", that now will be the family flagship. The F8 will be discontinued (at the end of this year?) and there will be the V6TT Hybrid. In my opinion the Artura will be in the same class as the "Dino 306" and the "new 720" will be in the SF90 class. Hybrid cars for Ferrari, one with around 750 Hp (V6) and one with 1000Hp (V8)
In terms of market positioning (production volume, pricing) I see the new V6 as the F8 replacement - the SF90 is far more expensive and has been presented, quite accurately IMHO, as addressing a new market segment. The typical buyers of entry-level V8 sports cars will become buyers of the V6, just like the typical buyer of BMW inline-six sedans has become a buyer of inline-four already some years ago.
Sadly true - but for different reasons I think.
In the case of supercars it’s emissions-driven whereas for the I-6 to I-4 transition it’s cost driven and because the regular BMW buyer now can’t tell the difference.
The downsizing in engine commensurate with price increases, and the so-called enthusaists keep buying the line.
Exactly, the new V6 replaces F8.
Maybe I did not write well: instead of the F8 there will be the new V6, the Dino 306. It's not a new "entry level", it's the F8 replacement.
Amazed how Porsche could sell his 4 cylinders engine like the legendary Flat-6.
People really don’t care about mechanical jewelry, the only thing that matters is the Brand.
It’s like when Chris Harris proclaims the NA V8 to sound meh, but adores the V8 turbo sound....credibility forever lost.
Most wont care about the lil V6 when wrapped in F badges and told oh so hard to acquire.
Believe it or not, I actually agree with CH on his assessment of sound. I find the Speciale to be shouty but not particularly pleasing. While quieter because of the turbos, I think the 488/Pista has a sweeter tone - it's just less in your face. I suspect it has to do with the turbo engine's smaller displacement. My opinion anyhow.
Speciale is nowhere near as musical or pleasing at the regular 458, as has been discussed here. I was so disappointed in mine. Some aftermarket can help for sure. But not the 488's.
This video has been a source of temptation in the past!
From what I have read Artura is positioned above the Mclaren GT, but below the 720S/765LT. They have apparently gotten rid of the “Sports Series”, “Super Series” designation. However, what we can deduce is that after an “LT” model, then they release a new model to replace the other. So, the Sports Series has had its “LT” model, and now the “replacement” seems to be the Artura. And it has a hot Vee V6. This new engine will more than likely be in the 720S/765LT aka “Super Series” replacement. I like others was thinking that the Artura was a competitor to the Ferrari LB, however, the hp of the Artura doesn’t match up with the rumored hp of the LB. So going by that, logically the Mclaren’s answer to the LB hasn’t been revealed yet.
One could say that the Speedtail and the SF90 are competitors. Except that the Speedtail is built for top speed, comfort and is RWD. And the SF90 is built more for spirited driving/track work, and is AWD. Both are hybrids. Both have 1000 or more hp. Both are V8s. Each just went about a different way of producing the same car.
In my opinion no, as the Speedtail is a 2WD Hypercar with limited production that costs almost five times the SF90, that is a 4WD production car: you cannot compare 400 k with 2 M.
Isn't there any replacement to 812? That's really sad.
They could've made another mid engine car instead. Or even a front engine hybrid V8/V6.
The front engine V6 will be on the Portofino/Roma sooner or later and there is the 812 VS scheduled at the mid of this year: here you are!
McLaren doesn’t match Ferrari/Lamborghini in their pricing tiers exactly but their cars perform on par or better with the understatement in power. On paper, the 720s compares with the Aventador/812 but yet comes in from a pricing standpoint below both of those. Same with the 570s, priced below the 488/F8 and more in line with the RWD Huracan.
With the Artura, they’ve managed to price the car nearly at the same price as the outgoing 570s but slot it above the V8 GT in their product hierarchy. In my opinion, the 720s replacement car as discussed will likely be a derivative of the Artura TT V6 Hybrid set up where they dial up the power north of the 765LT’s power but no where near the 1000 bhp mark. McLaren wants to protect the Ultimate Series car buyers like the Speedtail from a marketing standpoint but will surely under rate the power output significantly. For example, with the exception of the Senna brakes, which can be spec’d on a 765LT, the Senna’s only difference is the extreme downforce and the fact that they only made 500 Coupes and no Spiders. The 765LT clearly appears to be putting out the same if not maybe even more power than the Senna and will come in Spider form down the road. As years go on, it’s fair game for manufactures to outperform previous halo/limited cars, the SF90 has lapped Fiorano quicker than the La Ferrari for example.
The carbon tub and a few more years of technological advancements will definitely allow the 720s replacement car to be in the stated 800bhp range, likely going to the wheels on a dyno too, yet be significantly lighter than the SF90 and therefore easily perform on par with it for a starting price around $400K before options. I think Ferrari’s LB car will split the difference in both power output and performance of the Artura/720s replacement. More expensive and powerful than the Artura, but less than the 720s replacement in both attributes. SF90 is simply a whole new segment of that $500K+ space that buyers want some exclusivity from the more “mass market” super car realm of the $200K-$450K space where many manufactures play.
I really like the McLaren Artura technology: I think it's a fantastic car, very light and with a state of the art carbon fiber chassis. This said, who cares: here in Modena nobody wants to buy a McLaren...
The Ferrari new 3.0 V6 combustion engine will be upgraded to 750 hp for future VS (should be around 650 hp in this first edition). McLaren cars have the weight advantage (they are usually lighter than the Ferrari cars) but lack what we all want: the Prancing Horse and the Made in Italy writing.
I agree with everything in this post. I think the offerings from Ferrari and McLaren will be out of phase in terms of pricing/segmentation and technical approach. I do wonder how close the LB will be to the SF90 in terms of real world performance if it is 750hp and significantly lighter. I also expect the styling of LB to be less controversial than the SF90.
No its in history now
IMO its going to look like the JP 50
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