NEW MODEL KIT THREAD

I gather, then, that the MFH kits were not "Ferrari licensed" products? I know that the Tamiya 1/12 kits and the Fujimi and Hasegawa 1/20 & 1/24 kits are, so I doubt if they are in any danger.

As for the diecasts, I know that the GMP Ferraris were licensed, but I don't know about anyone else.

 

most are not, being small makers or independant, save the few exceptions as you say, the price of licensing is quite extreme as I understand it

the surprise is because MFH are primarily vintage and some race Ferrari, so the lawyer-piranha are extending reach of subject matter

also, even though each MFH kit might be under 500 units, the tactic these piranha use, is to bully a company. and that threat is effective since they could be broken by lawyer bills to defend against any action, even if it doesn't have a chance of winning

doing some quick looking here online, appears that Ferrari trademark lawyers are a sub-contracted legal firm, and they are the worst, being like ambulance chasers they will be seeking out opportunities, so they can bill their client more $, and if they are left to be the licensing negotiators too, then explains the absurd rates

 

I'm certain that none of the 1/12 kits from Mexico are licensed. Then again I'm not sure Mexico enforces TM laws.

 

Well, about MFH....... All of their Ferrari kits were officially licensed products, so it is not exactly the lawyers discovering them, and then coming after them. Most likely it was the end of MFH's licensing agreement, and Ferrari was very probably too greedy (as they are known to be) and too demanding, hence immediate end of sales of all Ferrari kits.

 

They can't do anything about the books. (I suppose they can try). Those are HIS photographs and are protected under intellectual property laws. Models are too, but I guesss everyone is too afraid to go to court. Its sculpture, an art form well under protection from the Lanham Act laws. No product confusion.

If Ferrari is reading this. I WILL SELL YOUR MODELS UNTIL I HAVE TO GO TO JAIL. KISS MY EFFIN ASS.

Ed Cervo

 

Okay, good information & that makes sense, thanks Marshall

I have heard other stories (not just scale products) that the expected licensing fees from Ferrari (and many other automotive products in general) have been going to "nuts" levels, even Monogram had to stop producing Nascar models for in part that reason

 

That's probably true Ed, and reading MFH announcement there, says only 1/24 & 1/20 scale model kits being affected, so for the moment I would say that it does not include Honda's reference books

 

Books are not affected at all, and never have been. That is completely different. Ed is 100% correct. No one can enforce licensing on ANY books. The idiots in Ferrari's merchandising department know that and make no attempts to do anything, but I'm sure they have spent some of their limited brain power trying to figure out a way around the existing laws.

I'm a fan of old and real Ferrari, not the "new" corporate piranha entities now running everything.

 

While I'm no fan of what's happening to Hiro and potentially others, people have to keep in mind, that Ferrari's main source of income is merchandising. They manufacture road cars as a side business. Hard to believe but fact.

To look at it differently:

Their sole purpose at this point of producing road cars and racing in F1 is to give the merchandising folks and toy manufacturers (with whom they have a licensing deal) something to replicate and sell. That's where they make their main money.

 

This subject can get confusing but regardless or not if they have a liscensing agreement with someone does not mean I can't legally produce a Ferrari model. And just because you receive a letter from a lawyer threatening you, does not mean you are in the wrong. If nobody fights them, they win by default. They ever take me to court and LOSE then they will open the floodgates for any model maker in the world to go and produce there cars in scale. I am begging for the chance to set the precedent. After owning a gun store and being threatened by NYS politicians as well as the US gov't having a Italian car company come after me for model cars does not exactly intimidate me. And it should not intimidate anyone else.

Model cars are a form of sculpture. Sculpture being art is covered by intellectual property laws. Those laws allow you paint a picture of a Ferrari, sculpt a Ferrari, take a photogtraph of a Ferrari and best of all, sell those items which you produce REGARDLESS of any agreement Ferrari has with someone else as long as there is no product confusion. Also you can not say its a liscensed product if it isn't and as long as you do not use any of there tradmarked items to sell that product you are fine. This is covered by the Lanham Act as well as various other trademark/copyright laws. Look it up on the net or go to the library and look it up in those West Law books.

Printing decals is another matter. Thats printed matter and is actually a violation from what I understand.

One of the big issues are the ignorant plastic model car/diecast companies that are so afraid of litigation that they automatically give money for liscensing that they do not really need! I should call them to sell them some insurance. Or maybe some swamp land. This makes Ferrari (or other companies) think that they have rights that they do not actually have. Anybody can ASK for money for liscensing, it doesn't mean they are entitled to it.

Now as far as MFH making enough money? I don't have access to there financial portfolio but I know how much I spend ON them each week for my customers. I can not see how they can NOT be doing well. And I'm not even close to there biggest dealer. And many of there kits have been selling out. Add to the fact that they do not do small runs. They are simply just a very professional, well organized company. I know exactly what the costs of making a 24th scale kit are. And if I sell them at around $150 retail I'm doing fine. They sell a kit for about $300 retail. So they add an engine kit to a curbside kit cost for another $150. If they were not making money then really all they would have had to do was raise the price of the kits to maybe $400. Remember, some of these kits are actually Climax models and we all paid $500 for them back in the mid 90's.

This is going to have a negative impact on my business in the immediate future but I guess I'll just have to actually start producing resin 24th Ferrari models again on my own. In that case in the longterm I'll end up ahead since I will be there to fill the void. Gotta give the people what they want..........

 

Thanks for your fascinating post.

Look at Ferraris tactics as raising the market entry level bar for your ignorant competition.

And pls produce some kits in 1/12.

 

Well........ It costs a fair amount to produce their kits, and for a number of reasons - and being in the business.... I respectfully decline throwing any $ amounts out there. I know that Tokyo is a very expensive city to operate from, however it can be done....and MFH prices have never been a bargain. I will also say that even with the staff and overhead they have, and knowing much of the costs, as well as ways of various savings and production techniques and keeping it mostly all in house, and given the vast amount of product they produce, etc...... I firmly believe they are successful in making money and turning a profit from sales of their kits without having to rely on any extra R&D money or other money coming in. I've run many scenarios and numbers on these productions. MFH is making money selling their kits. It is not an an easy market to work in and be successful in, but it can be done.

 

Next up from Profil 24 is the Alfa Giulietta SZ Le Mans 1963

1/24 kit Alfa Giulietta SZ Le Mans 1963 n°34,35,36 - profil24-models

Jeremy

 

How much of failing profits, besides cost to produce & licensing fees, can be attributed to lost interest in that scale (1/24)? or model building in general?

I agree that cheap die-casts have really saturated the market for those more interested in a display model, rather than to build it themselves, sadly

 

Fair to say, and some of it is availability too, when I was a kid, kits were on the shelves of several local stores, not just hobby stores, and it was encouraged by parents as a hobby
That dynamic doesn't exist now, so if a person wants to be involved in scale model building, they have to deliberately search it out
Current generation of kids are brought up in social media & digital games/design, so a very different set of interests and skills, including buying toys or display models online, to collect or decorate with, rather than anything requiring assembly
I've seen the recent rise in die-cast models prices affected, and it really does seem that 1/43 & 1/18 are of more interest for 'built' models, as you say

 

+1

Went to a hobby show recently and the kit building section was the smallest part of it and pretty much dead. The kids were all hanging out with the electronic toys where all you need to do is add batteries.

 

True, RC cars are more popular than ever, and die-cast/builts also, it makes one wonder about the future of plastic kits?

 

On the subject of MFH Ferrari kits, is it true that many of the MFH its (not just Ferrari) originated from Climax kits?

 

good info, thanks Tommy