Hello all, I bought a parked-for-7-years 308 in January. I did a major service: belts, seals, bearings, all fluids. The car started and drove normally for about 50 miles. Last weekend the cylinder heads ran dry. The cams ran out of oil and ground themselves and their plain bearing races pretty badly. Surprisingly, the car never stalled, I just heard bad, bad, noises at the traffic light. Car was showing good oil pressure the whole time. Anyway, I've decided that while this engine may be rebuildable (lots of head work, and pretty much a full rebuild bottom end job at this point) I'd prefer to get going again sooner rather than later. I have a chance to buy a 308 GTSi long block for a reasonable price and I was hoping someone could point me to a thread where the differences between the engines are pointed out, so that i can get an idea of how hard it would be to swap my carbs onto a CIS engine. Love the car, love this site, (made use of a lot of tech articles on here for the major service). Any and all advice welcome. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Are you sure that you didn't inadvertently put a cam cap, or two, on backwards? (That's been the dominate reported cause of 308 cam seizure.)
Sorry, should have mentioned that. Yes, I'm sure those were correct. I marked position and orientation on removal and put them back in as they came out. I also made sure that the belt side caps had their timing marks facing the correct direction. When I removed the RH bank cams it looked like the cams just weren't getting fed any oil to begin with; the feed galley was suspiciously dry. I guess I won't know until I do a complete tear down. I will eventually rebuild this engine, but I'm wondering how big a job it is to make use of the CIS engine I'm debating. Thank you for your reply.
At worst it is pretty easy to put the whole CIS system in the carb chassis. I actually owned a car that someone did that to. Did you get the CIS system also? I'd look at the parts manuals either at ricambiamerica.com or downloadable from a bunch of places and check the part numbers for the heads. If those are the same then the manifolds should bolt right on.
Thanks Brian, No, I didn't get the CIS system. I checked the heads using the Ricambi site and the LH head is the same part number (or at least one of the variants crosses over). I guess I'm trying to make sure there isn't some nuance difference between the two engines that will stop me dead in my tracks. I was thinking maybe something distributor related could be an issue. I think I should be able to carry the carb distributor over, but I wasn't sure.
Sorry to hear about your troubles Steven. No doubt will be worth it in the end. I have a spare set of 2v injected car camshafts with less than 8000mi if in need. Best...Jim
Thanks Jim, Funnily enough, this hasn't dimmed my enthusiasm for the car at all, but I am trying to make a decision that minimizes how long I'll have to be walking past a sad, broken, 308.
Sucks man! Great attitude though! FYI - Newman also has extra stock 308 motor parts up in Canada from all his engine projects....he unloads some periodically on ebay, etc. Might shoot him a PM or give him a call.
Consider installing a 328 3.2. Been done by an Fchat member--can't recall the name but it was a straightforward project with great results.
I would say give Newman a call. He is in the process of turning a Tr motor into a carb, and has probably done the same with 308's. There was also a thread of someone turning a mondial QV into a carb motor. For sure the cams are different, the injection cams being flat and pretty crappy so as not to have wave reversion for the early Fi systems to cope..
Sorry to hear your tale, not a good way to start off with a new car. A rebuild of the top end is not too difficult but it does take time. If you are going to replace the cams, go with the earlier cams as they are more aggressive. Another think to consider is replacing the valves (old ones are sodium filled). I am not sure on the 1980 swap but I think you can drop it right in and use the carbs in place of the fuel injection. I am sure others can set me strait if this is incorrect and I am interested in the answer. What is the condition of the 1980 motor? You may find it is easier to just rebuild the '79 motor as the 1980 motor may have issues as well. Good luck and keep us posted.
Toss the injection from the later engine and its the same as a carb car. The cams in 79 are the same lame cams the injected cars got. Its a drop in.
Sad to say but this stuff beats carbs any day and all day long. Total tune-ability and fuel economy and power. 360HP I believe this made Image Unavailable, Please Login
I love redemption like this. The 3X8's aren't old, they are the essence, the prime period of the founder's involvement with production and an increasing awareness of his production cars. Taking one of these and moderninizing the powerplant is the best of all Ferrari worlds. Are larger wheels and suspension updates fairly mandatory with a powerplant like this? 360 is very generous indeed for those cars.
The only changes made to the car whose engine is pictured above where thicker swaybars, rebuilt shocks, new bushings everywhere. The car was designed for 350+ hp originally IMHO. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Great! Thank you very much! I appreciate all the responses and help! I think the CIS engine is going to be the way to go. Allegedly the CIS engine is a 20k mile engine. Removed from a running car, but since I haven't seen it with my own eyes; I agree, I'm taking a chance. Then again, it would be difficult for this engine to be worse than what I currently have. Hahaha. The sodium filled valves are a concern, but I"m not sure how to weigh the risk/reward for doing a pre-emptive valve job on the CIS engine...
Caveat emptor. There are probably still a fair number of low mileage 2Vi long blocks out there that got replaced for high oil consumption even though running fine -- time has now taken these from something absolutely worth keeping at the time into just some junk taking up space... Is the Seller giving any other real facts, or making any statements, beyond "Allegedly the CIS engine is a 20k mile engine. Removed from a running car..."? "When removed" would factor into my setting valuation -- JMO.
