New Sales Record

They will hit 20k cars a year once Puro production is in full swing.

 

Not with Puro starting at nearly $400k! Factory capacity is also around 15,000 units.

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Mark my words...they will find additional capacity and there are something like 5 million people in the world worth over $20m.

 

So I've owned an early 911, a 924, and now my wife has a Macan. Got caught in Kansas at 106. I've had a Maserati Spyder, which is your grandmother's Ferrari. Now I've got

 

Well put. I won't get into the Ferrari-or-Porsche debate, because these have always been my personal favorite marques.

But the question of how exotic these cars are is an interesting one. In 1978, the 308 was near the top of the automotive pyramid. I had seen one on TV, and at my high school graduation someone's parents had a red 308 GTS QV in the parking lot. I had never seen one in person. So damn red. So low. No door handles?! We had no Ferrari dealer in the state (Ohio). The Porsche 944 was new on the market and regarded as pretty high end, but a Ferrari 308 was exotic. I had seen only one before I moved back to California in '95. Of course Ferrari had the 512 BBi, but those weren't even US-legal. Couldn't get one. That made the 308 even cooler. Want a Ferrari? No dealers, and they offer only one model here that's street legal.

Now the Ferrari, Aston Martin and Lamborghini dealers are right down the street from Porsche, and they all have cars you can buy today.

But I will say a lot of this may be on us. With FChat and the internet, we all have unprecedented access to huge amounts of owner experience and information. While relatively few own a 488 or 812, we can all hear firsthand (virtually) what it takes to buy, maintain and sell these cars. I've met hundreds of 308/328 owners, many in person at planned meetups. Still love those cars, but they're no longer all that exotic to me.

 

Funny how the Cayman which is the real sports car at Porsche doesn’t get much love. From the base model to the GT4, this is as pure of a sports car that exists today. By comparison, a 911 is a porker.

And, yes, you can get it with a stick.


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Agreed.

Heck... The boxster gets made fun of... Yet it's a fantastic car. I mean seriously anyone who talks crap about a boxster hasn't driven one.

Check this out!

 

I believe some here are missing an important point.

Enzo built Ferrari road cars to support his racing addiction.

Porsche builds Cayenes and Macans to support our addiction for 911 GT3's and Cayman GT4's.

We should all welcome Ferrari building SUV's, even if we never plan on owning one. Ferrari SUV's will support Ferrari developing and giving you the next Pista or GT of your choice. Unless you want to be paying over $1,000,000 for the base model of your next fantasy car, you should welcome this news. Let the soccer moms and dads of the world support your addiction.

And if you don't think Porsche builds exciting exotic cars, get your hands on a 2022 GT3, if you can (GT3 RS anyone?). You'd be lucky to get it for $100,000 above MSRP. If a naturally aspirated 500 hp Flat 6 with a 9000 RPM redline doesn't make your adrenaline rush, I'd recommend checking your pulse. And, for the "purists" or old-timers on this thread (like me), it can still be had with 3 pedals and a stick. And it might sound cliche', but yes, I do drive my Porsche every single day. In what car would I rather drive to and from work and run around doing errands? I can't think of any. And the fact that it blends in is a pro, not a con in this regard.

I'm looking forward to my 296 GTB when it arrives. I won't be daily driving it, but it will be special - that I'm sure of. But I do wish Ferrari was building SUV's so that the soccer moms (and dads) can help subsidize my cost. And heck, if it's a nice SUV that they build, I may have it parked next to my "real" special weekend Ferrari and daily driver Porsche. After all, I do make the occasional trip to Home Depot and I may even have to drive my kids and their friends to soccer sometime. What better way to do that than in a Ferrari SUV?

 

EXACTLY RIGHT!!!

 

Good points. I agree, daily driving a Porsche sports car is an adrenalin rush, and the queues for the GT versions are unreal.

As far as Home Depot... I'd leave those duties for a Range Rover. My two cents. I would guess that anyone paying MSRP++ for a Ferrari SUV won't be hauling plywood and mulch.

 

They won't do it but they should divide "Ferrari" into 2 groups.

One is all the specialty low production cars and everything that doesn't use a 12 cylinder "Dino" or some other name.

And they should have 2 F1 groups -- one of each brand.

The Ferrari "brand" is becoming generic. If they divided they could make the new Ferrari brand even more exclusive and successful while making total capacity over 20K

 

What would be interesting to know is how many Ferrari sold last year by model. The 11,000 doesn't bother me. It wasn't 11,000 F8's or 11,000 Portofino's. The number of models a company makes will extend the number sold in total. The Roma was added to the total last year also. Ferrari is still a very low production automobile company as has been noted in this Porsche, I mean Ferrari thread.

 

Ferrari owners care about exclusivity. That includes all models produced. This attitude will diminish as new buyers only know a Ferrari that is as common place as Porsche. Further dilution is expected when the cockpit goes 100% digital and propulsion full electric.

 

In a few years Porsche has increased its production from 100,000 to 300,000 - that's a different order compared to Ferrari, even if Ferrari goes to 20,000 units.
The same way that Porsche is still considered more "special" than BMW (which sells more than 2,000,000 cars per year), Ferrari could stay more "special" than Porsche.

 

If we see Ferrari building an expansion to the factory or building a new factory in another country, then the production numbers will jump. Without robotics and factory expansion there are just so many units that can be pumped out.

 

Yes Ferrari owners care about exclusivity but what is exclusive? As someone directly involved in luxury product research - compared to other luxury brands Ferrari is still very exclusive, its barrier to entry is increasing and its actual production growth rate is towards the bottom in any luxury sector.

Personally in a world filled with so much "manufactured exclusivity" its refreshing to know how many cars Ferrari sells. In general the secret to luxury products sustainable retained value is based more on shared experience/appreciation and less on total units sold. Many companies make a limited number not because of desired product exclusivity but because that is all they can sale and unfortunately many of Ferrari's competitors have fallen in this category.

Yes for some, Ferrari producing 5% of Porsche may diminishes its desirability. For those there are many 1st generation and other brands that will gladly take their money and enable them to display their uniqueness.



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If I had to put a number on it I'd say 5 thousand. Make them special, a lot of hand-made craftsmanship, and top quality materials. Charge what you have to as they will always be sold. Make large, in your face NA V12s in low numbers to keep them away from regulators. To make more power make them bigger. Subtract weight off the chassis. Use exotic materials. Make the suspension adjustable. Fire Manzoni. Beautiful race car for the street with impeccable interiors. I can go on..

 

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No offense, but its nearly impossible to support a capital intensive car company on 5,000 units, as the math doesn't work. I have had this exact conversation with CEOs and Boards for over 30 years. Its a hard message to hear but the simplest way to go bankrupt is to create a business model around enthusiasts.

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None taken. But that wasn't the ask. I gave you what an enthusiast sees as exclusive not how to make money.

 

A Pagani is exclusive. They make 30 a year. You will never see one on the road. I know 30 a year is on the extreme low production side. There is a reason in all of the geographic sections, there is a stereotypical "spotters" thread. We get a thrill seeing another Ferrari in the wild. Maybe in West Palm, they are seen multiple times a day. But in most parts of the US anyway, it is still relatively rare when I happen on another Ferrari. Porsches, BMWs, Corvettes etc., sure. I see them all the time. Whether Ferrari makes 10,000 a year, or 20,000 a year or even 30,000 a year, the stats are meaningless in terms moving the needle on the exclusivity scale.

 

Good thing Ferrari is only building 599 Daytona SP3's!

 

Pagani does not make their own engines, they are basically a coach/chassis builder around a German V12, nothing wrong with that, but without an engine supplier carrying the R&D burden, they do not exist.

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/supercars/official-pagani-huayras-v12-engined-successor-arrives-2023

and the future does not look bright for Pagani...given the results of the survey in the link above:

"When we looked at different scenarios [for the Huayra successor’s powertrain], we gave priority to the customers,” Mr Pagani told TG. “We talked to them and tried to understand what they would prefer.

“In the end, none of them were interested in an electric Pagani or a hybrid version. Rather, they expressed the desire to once again have a car that is light and easy to drive. This meant a journey of hard work with Mercedes-AMG lasting more than 72 months, to create the new Pagani V12 engine to achieve extraordinary power and torque and to equip a car like the Roadster BC that weighs less than 1,300kg.

As an aside, adding to the absurdity of "EV" exotics, this from 2019:

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/geneva-motor-show/exclusive-pagani-working-all-electric-hypercar

“Our future project is a fully electric car in 2024.” Wow. What on Earth do Pagani’s customers, who view their cars just as much as fine art as they do as ultra-fast toys, think of that? Are they demanding Pagani goes electric?

“No! None of our customers or dealers want to know about an electric car. They don’t want to know anything about it. They’re not interested. It’s a huge challenge for us, because no-one is asking for it.” Mr Pagani’s refreshing, matter-of-fact honesty momentarily staggers me.

 

I agree 5,000 would be very exclusive for a company that sells a product in all major markets.


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Porsche owners drive their cars.

Ferrari owners don’t. You don’t see them as a result.

I’ve had 3 Porsches and 2 Ferraris (and 1 BMW). I never daily drive either Ferrari.


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