New Tires - "Vintage" Look | FerrariChat

New Tires - "Vintage" Look

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by Wade, Dec 1, 2014.

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  1. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    32,793
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    #1 Wade, Dec 1, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    This is a project that I've been planning for awhile; to replicate the look and achieve the size (overall diameter - OD) of the original TRX tires.

    Why? Because I've always loved the look of the TRX tires on the Mondial, with their sort of balloon style that preceded the low profiles that are in use today. Plus, the current offering of tires, in sizes as per owner's manual, always looked undersized to me (too short).

    Here's what I've looked at (chart): fields in green are the OEM specs, red text are the tires I just removed (came with the car) and the red bordered fields are my new tires.

    T/W = tread width
    S/W = sidewall width
    .
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  2. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    32,793
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    #2 Wade, Dec 1, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
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  3. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    32,793
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    #3 Wade, Dec 1, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
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  4. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    32,793
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    #4 Wade, Dec 1, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2014
    The new front tires fill the wheel wheel very nicely and are just a hair taller than the TRX tires. Although much taller than the old Pirellis.

    Of course, the tread pattern is very different...

    Overall, the car rides beautifully! Looks great too (to me). :)

    Oh, and they were on sale at Sam's, $509 mounted and balanced with warranty.
     
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  5. mulo rampante

    mulo rampante Formula Junior

    May 31, 2011
    997
    Terra Incognita
    Full Name:
    Charles
    Wade: I completely agree on the look, and I think you've achieved it with those new tires. Great choice. I've always been a fan of the vintage RWD wheel offsets and tire geometry with tall/bulbous sidewalls. Running a set of 348 wheels here, so this is not achievable in my case... might have to look for a set of 16's.
     
  6. Mondial 1985

    Mondial 1985 Formula Junior

    Jun 13, 2012
    344
    Greenville, SC
    Full Name:
    Mark Alan Day
    Your rims are of course 16s? There's no replacement tyre for the 390, correct? Other than buying a set of TRX at $500.00 apiece.
     
  7. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    32,793
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    #7 Wade, Dec 2, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Thanks. Here's a 3.2 with TRXs for another look:
    .
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  8. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    32,793
    East Central, FL
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    Wade O.
    Yes they are 16", which are slightly bigger (wheel OD) than the 390s.

    And correct (sadly), no replacement tires for the 390 other than the TRX (at over four times what I just paid).
     
  9. Rapalyea

    Rapalyea Formula 3

    Jun 18, 2013
    1,511
    Georgia Mountains US
    Full Name:
    David Rapalyea alias
    Very Good Post

    Inattentive me I paid little attention to the options when I wore out my Pirreli P Zero Neros [worn out in 6,000 miles]. I just went to tire rack and bought the narrower tires specified for the car 205/55 fronts 225/50 rears not even thinking about upsizing the Continental ExtremeContact Summer DWs ($100 each).

    Although the tires are great fun charging around my mountains I would have chosen upsizing if I had thought about it. They will wear out soon enough so will keep this in mind next time.
     
  10. Longstone Tyres

    Longstone Tyres Formula 3
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    Feb 2, 2006
    1,809
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    Dougal
    #10 Longstone Tyres, Dec 22, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  11. Bell Bloke

    Bell Bloke Formula 3

    Dec 6, 2012
    1,839
    UK
    Yep I run vintage tyres on Kato, and although the outright grip is slightly less than the low profile ones they are much more fun and are far less snappy on the limit which means that you can stay on the limit for longer. I also like the way the old high wall tyres ride, it's kind of a novelty these days as everyone has low profile tyres on bloody everything here in Europe, even off road vehicles.....laughable really.
    Anyway, good on you ;-)
     
  12. Rapalyea

    Rapalyea Formula 3

    Jun 18, 2013
    1,511
    Georgia Mountains US
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    David Rapalyea alias
    I have my qualms about mixing tires. Did something like that on my Caddy CTS and ended upside down and backwards over a 15 foot cliff. I had ruined one of the front tires and had some mounted tires stacked in the basement and used them as temps. The Caddy stability control really really did not like it in a hard left turn at about 50mph.

    I put a bit of tail out and stability control said "NO" you are supposed to go straighter. So the car more or less locked up my right rear tire as I was pointing just so slightly towards the left as per normal. So much so it threw the car hard right. Rolled the tire right off the rim and that was all she wrote.

    Who the hell ever spins to the OUTSIDE of the curve. That Caddy was destroyed on every single surface. And the speed was such not one of the ten thousand air bags deployed. But I was in good company. My instructor at Road Atlanta rolled his CTS as well.

    I THINK these Caddies are better now. But whatever car I now shod with new tires get matched front and back. Currently I have Continental ExtremeContact Summer DWs in stock sizes and they are magnificent at 40psi all around. As if they were designed for this specific car. Rotation is whatever I want it to be. I have decided next time not to change out to different tires or sizes. That should be in about 6,000 miles.
     
  13. Bell Bloke

    Bell Bloke Formula 3

    Dec 6, 2012
    1,839
    UK
    Yes it's true that you should never, ever mix tyres on the same axle, how ever front to rear has never given any problems excepting when you have more grippy tyres on the front.
    Most folks with Ferraris rely on quite a bit of understeer as early warning of the approaching limit of adhesion. This was set by the factory many moons ago to help people avoid an unplanned spin and brush with the scenery when going a little over the limit. Understeer has always been that warning to the ordinary driver, take that away by putting grippy tyres on the front and you are getting much nearer to and oversteer situation on the limit. This for more accomplished drivers is good fun but for the novice it's terrifying. I've recently put grippy tyres on the front of my Smart car, for me this is fantastic because the roads are really slippery here at the moment the result being that the little Smart is spending most of it's time with it's tail out going in and coming out of the corners.
    The Ferrari has also had a tyre change with non matching ones, the new tyres that are on the rear are very, very grippy the result being that the Ferrari is now always being pushed into understeer, this set-up although very safe is not any fun for me. This means that I can't steer the car on the throttle at the limit very easily because of the understeer. However once I get the same brand on the front ie matching tyres all round, the cars handling will be restored and with a greater limit of adheasion than with the old tyres.
    Gosh, long post! Hope you get my 'drift'' ;-)
     
  14. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    32,793
    East Central, FL
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    Wade O.
    I think you've misplaced your glasses. The basis of this thread is TRX tires, not mixing tires. ;)

    Nice story otherwise.
     
  15. Rapalyea

    Rapalyea Formula 3

    Jun 18, 2013
    1,511
    Georgia Mountains US
    Full Name:
    David Rapalyea alias
    Hi Bell Long posts are good and we all like drift!

    I have always heard this understeer business with Ferraris and mine just does not have that quality. Originally, while learning, it had horible understeer. But that was just part of the smoke and mirrors. It would scare away a novice while still making that novice feel like Fangio.

    Then I pushed it harder and it got neutral. We are not talking much more then about 50 mph in all these cases. With the Pirellis the fronts would keep tight but would give up first, but not until after a decent partial rotation. No plowing under any circumstances. And I had occasion to pass a lady at 50mph who made a sharp left turn into me. The Ferrari simply pointed where I pointed it. There was no understeer. A simple 90 degree left turn in about 1 second. Thats about 1G. Thats about right.

    These new tires have more bite in the front. I like that. The front of the car always points where I want it to go no matter where it is going. And the worst I have ever seen is at about 60 mph with a clean full throttle on drift. I flat out do not believe these low powered cars can actually overpower their natural tendancy to go straight when you loose the quick return steering or lift the throttle.

    There is just no worse feeling on any road then when the front tires just give up. A decent car will tuck in when you lift throttle, and that is how I always try to tune all such cars. The Ferrari just points where I want to go. I can lift throttle and tighten, or dial in some more rotation and more throttle. Not that it has Corvette levels of throttle.

    Mostly the car just does nothing sudden or anything bad. I have one 100 mph long four lane sweeper. My other cars tell me I should go no further then about 90. Nothing dramatic. Just a simple notice. The Ferrari tells me "this is not even playing" as I am at full throttle in 4th. True. I do not want to play at 100 mph. But this thing seems hankering after 110mph.
     
  16. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    32,793
    East Central, FL
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    Wade O.
    Because I saved about $2000. If you guys offered what I needed for about $200 per tire (avg.) then I'd buy the TRXs. However, once my Mondial becomes as significant and desirable as, say a 246GT, then costs associated with originality will become "no object". :)

    I think I'm very close with the front and the rear tires are, OD size-wise, right between the TRX and the ones that were already on the car. The tread is wider right now.
     
  17. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    32,793
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    When you say vintage, I assume that you're talking about repros (e.g. new TRXs) and not just plain "old tires".
     
  18. Rapalyea

    Rapalyea Formula 3

    Jun 18, 2013
    1,511
    Georgia Mountains US
    Full Name:
    David Rapalyea alias
    Wade

    As far as I am concerned you have total authority to obtain whatever look or performance you want! Hell. EYE got all the performance I can handle at $100 per tire and will meet anyone at Road Atlanta for comparisons!

    PS: Road Atlanta sucks. Designed to intimidate new drivers. Scared the hell out of me in a Caymen.
     
  19. Bell Bloke

    Bell Bloke Formula 3

    Dec 6, 2012
    1,839
    UK
    Hi Wade, sorry what I meant was that mine are of a vintage look rather than actually being old.
    Hi Rapalyea, your write up is actaully describing Ferrari dialled in understeer perfectly, in fact your description was even better than mine ;-)
    The only road car I've driven that even comes close to zero understeer is the Lotus Esprit V8 GT! Drive that and then get in the Ferrari and you will really feel the Ferraris understeer. Age wise ie like for like a 355 understeers massivley as compared to the V8 Lotus.

    I know it may seem we are off topic with this handling discussion here but it's important to understand the effects of tyres on the handling of your performance car. Looking good is only 1/10th of the story. Also it is vital to tell your insurance company when making non standard tyre changes to your vehicle because in the event of an accident, even a non fault one they may not pay out.
    Just something to consider, regards Bell
     
  20. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    32,793
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    When it comes to handling, or want of the experience that comes with that, I have a 348. But where I live, highway on/off ramps is the best I can get. :)

    By the way, if you look at my specs in post #1 you'll see that a lot more thought went into my selection other than just looks.
     
  21. Rapalyea

    Rapalyea Formula 3

    Jun 18, 2013
    1,511
    Georgia Mountains US
    Full Name:
    David Rapalyea alias
    Wade

    It is way clear to me you know what you are doing! And your charts are going into my bookmark list. Actual data is something to keep. We DO have some side chats going on. Me and Bell are philosophising on terminology on over, under, and "Oh Damn", steering.

    Bell

    We have some iconoclasts here in the mountains who drive Smart cars and even a couple of new Fiat 500's. They look really really weird amongst the native pickup trucks. Which reminds me of a funny story about my last trip to Italy a few years ago.

    My first forteen day tour was in the early 1980's. Fiat 500's were like fleas. Once in awhile there would be an orange Panda 750 to present an exotic. Anyway, my last trip was about five years ago and all my fellow countrymen were waxing exotic on all the small cars on the road.

    I remarked concerning the intervenening decades. American cars had gotten a little bit smaller. Italian car had gotten a WHOLE lot bigger. And I know of what I speak since I once owned a 1989 Fiat 850 Spyder. I suspect it would give your Smart car a close run for a parking space!
     
  22. Mark C Harvey

    Mark C Harvey Karting

    Jul 17, 2018
    247
    West Hartford, Connecticut
    Full Name:
    Mark C Harvey
    @Wade I am thinking about a new set of tires and like the TRX look. I am curious how your BF Goodrich’s worked out in the long run? Would you buy another set, or has something else come onto your radar? Also curious how they perform compared to lower profile options. I like the idea of progressive loss of traction, rather than ultimate grip..
     
  23. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    32,793
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    Hello Mark,

    A bit after I installed the Goodrich tires Dennis bought the car and drove it from FL to PA. He's in a much better environment for an analysis. Here's his post from another thread:

    Sounds exactly what you're looking for Mark.
     
  24. greatscott73

    greatscott73 Formula Junior

    Sep 1, 2017
    409
    Eastern Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Howard Scott
    I put the same BFG's on my recently purchased car and love them, and especially the price. The car still had the original Eagles on it, which were hard as a rock and basically square. Vast improvement.
    Interestingly, the PO had told me the tires would need instant replacing, and that the car had the metric tires and wheels on it. While it was being shipped, I dropped the big money for the TRXs, only to find the car actually was shod with 16s when it got here.
    Luckily, the TRX vendor was understanding and took them back.
     
  25. Mark C Harvey

    Mark C Harvey Karting

    Jul 17, 2018
    247
    West Hartford, Connecticut
    Full Name:
    Mark C Harvey
    Thanks for the fast response @Wade, I am pretty sure I’ll go with the BFGs.
     

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