New Track in Monticello New York

Quit whining about courses laid out to simulate a road. Want hundreds of different turns, each different from the last; try rally racing. Real roads, real cars, real fast. The way racing should be. Circuit racing is all about who has the most $ to have the best car after the dozen are so turns are mastered, rally racing showcases driver talent and who has the biggest balls.

And the best 'road course' with the best scenery in the US, Pikes Peak International Hillclimb.

 

Great post, I like your style - I disagree with you about road racing, but agree that rally racing is amazing. Have wanted to try the Targa Newfoundland for years.

 

This thread reminds me of http://www.clubmotorsports.com in NH. They have been trying to get this track built for over three years. In the beginning it was "we've got all permits in hand" and next thing you know it's in the NH state supreme court. Town sues, environmental groups sue, residents sue. Web site hasn't been updated in 6 months, land is cleared and thats all.

I for one would like to see the track built, and have an alternative to Lime Rock and Loudon. PLus it's an Alan Wilson designed track, which is a plus...

 

Try driving.

 

Circuit tracks and super speedways I've driven (and 1/4 mile in National competition).

I can codrive in ProRally and get paid for it by former 'road-racers' who'll always be faster than I will and have bigger budgets than mine.

Not knocking road racing, but pointing out rally racing has real roads and in my opinion, more challenges. You don't see rally drivers complaining about the 'road layout' on their forums. Will have to try Targa Newfoundland someday.

 

I take it, then, you've never road raced. Ultimately, though, I'm confused. With Ferrari's sports car and Formula One heritage, why are you here?

 

I'm glued to my seat every F1 race cheering for Ferrari, oddly I've never seen you entered. But thats not why I'm here.

 

That's because I race under a different moniker.

 

So you race a Benz? I work at Benz dealership.

Interesting your profile mentions DC Shoes. Ken Block who owns the company, and XGames star Travis Pastrana, are the official US Subaru factory team rally drivers.

 

Sometimes. Just depends on what they give me.

That's cool. I work for myself.

Yeah, there's a reason for the DC plug--I've been wearing them for years. Action sports and all that. But, uh, this is 2007 and I don't know where you get your information. Ken, Damon and Clay sold the company to Quiksilver in 2004 for $87,000,000. As a marketer, I have nothing but respect for Ken and I think they built an amazing brand. They deserve their success. As a driver, well, I've met Ken once or twice and he thinks it's funny that I wear DCs when I'm not wearing my racing shoes. Not many drivers even know the brand.

 

ken block is americas greatest race driver after travis pastroma lol

rallying is 2x as tough as all other driving b/c of the dorfito that is why for instance pastama won the race of champions almost and why the wrc cars are fastest in the world on the road plus once there was gruppeo b and that featured the quattro

 

Problem is, how many of these tracks are actually operating? All these promises, claims of having all permits, etc.... and WHERE IS THE TARMAC??? So far have heard about 5 or so tracks over the years and not a single one is in operation.

Anyone, anyone, Bueller?

Agreed, though as a guy who has invested thousands into that one and still waiting.... and waiting... and waiting... Hopefully i did not get burnt and learn the hard way, yet again i ask about WHERE IS THE TARMAC?

Anyone, anyone, Bueller?

------------------------
------------------------

So any of you even considering <cough> investing <cough> into these things so far i am STILL waiting to hear of them laying tarmac and actually operating. When THAT happens and things begin operating THEN it may be time to debate. For now, many of these country clubs seems like the only one making $$$ in the land/club owners and the interest your $$$ in giving them in their bank account.

HEY YOU, Mr. Totally Clueless, live your imagined dreams and fantasy. Send me $10,000 to be a member of something not built... maybe, perhaps, if we get lucky and the EPA, tree huggers, the town, local ordinances, etc allow it perhaps it will be built one day.

Oh, and we have monthly fees that might be more than if you participated in FCA/COMSCC/SCCA/SCDA/MARRS/etc clubs days. By he way, we can throw you out of our little Happy Lucky Dream Catcher Club, limit your time/use... and REMEMBER you technically own NOTHING and have ZERO REAL RIGHTS and may have ZERO physical items of any real value.

(Sarcasm)
Wow, what a deal!!! Where do i sign up??? i got a fast car. i am a clueless newbie ready to be fleeced. Sure i got more money than brains!


----------------
----------------

Please support a good (for me) cause, you know, someone who actually tracks their cars (that's me). It may not give YOU track time, but you are supporting an active track guy. Please send me your $10,000 (instead of to those Dream Catchers) to help support my track time. Heck, $100 is fine, or even $10 or $1.

PayPal your money to to: steve AT enjoythemusic DOT com

Sponsors needed now for 2007 SCCA season.

With apologies to Rob and Fchat for my self-promo, yet as a real member of Fchat (unlike the Dream Catchers) i feel if these non-member tracks guys can advertise then so can i.

 

Shhh, that is a dirty little secret they do not want us to know about. They want your $10,000 to be an exclusive dreamer of stars and sunshine.

 

I have been told that there are two bidness models for race tracks:

1. Build a test track to rent to pro teams and maybe hold a few events. I believe that the track in South Carolina uses this idea.

2. Build a membership track that limits, by definition, limits rental.

Door #1 has a longer negative cash flow, but more upside.

Door #2 gets you in the black sooner, but you are capped out due to membership use. Plus, you have to put up with all those @$%$#% members.

Comments?

Dale

 

In business model 2, you can avoid being "capped out" by running corporate outings during the week. With a track the size of Watkins Glen that offers the quality of Mont Tremblant within 90 minutes of New York City, I am confident there is plenty of demand for it.

David

 

Dale,

#1, if modest, pays off quickly and provides a good annuity for the owner(s).

#2, in order to be alluring to the high-brow crowd, invariably costs so much that the income doesn't even cover expenses, much less service the debt.

The other huge consideration is that in the Northeast, the season is so short that it materially affects the income potential. Look at Lime Rock, rent goes from $11K a day in 2005 to $20K a day in 2006. Of course, they're still full.

The membership density required to keep "membership only" track fully rented needs to be tenfold the most successful membership roster so far, more with less open and seasonal days.

There will be a shakeout. And there's a reason why out of three dozen planned tracks east of the Mississippi over the last ten years, four get built...

-Peter

 

Dale,

#1, if modest, pays off quickly and provides a good annuity for the owner(s).

#2, in order to be alluring to the high-brow crowd, invariably costs so much that the income doesn't even cover expenses, much less service the debt.

The other huge consideration is that in the Northeast, the season is so short that it materially affects the income potential. Look at Lime Rock, rent goes from $11K a day in 2005 to $20K a day in 2006. Of course, they're still full. They've never made money in recent times, either, except for corporate sponsorship of the track itself. ($3M/annually from Dodge/BMW)

The membership density required to keep "membership only" track fully rented needs to be tenfold the most successful membership roster so far, more with less open and seasonal days.

There will be a shakeout. And there's a reason why out of three dozen planned tracks east of the Mississippi over the last ten years, four get built...

-Peter

 

This is from my brother, he lives in the area:
Thanks for the link. Yes, he's cleared plenty of land and seems to be moving forward.... Great and pertinent comments; as a local, I have a feeling that the 'tree-hugger' crowd won't be an issue much around here since it was a relatively isolated airport with plenty of space surrounding it. I do think the comments re: limited season, financing, etc. are correct. I just don't think his way-upscale model will fly though. Probably anyone with the $$$ to join probably can just hop in the G5 and head south where the Enzo is parked anyway! If it does get going, I agree with the post that said the business model will change to allow club/track rental dates. Look for an on-site B&B or Inn for visitors (although it's really close to the Inn at Lake Joseph).... I hope he pulls it off, it would be a real asset to our area.