New USA Amateur Ferrari Racing Series | FerrariChat

New USA Amateur Ferrari Racing Series

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by rob lay, Oct 17, 2007.

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  1. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
    63,568
    Southlake, TX
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    Rob Lay
    I have sold the RX8 and will now shift my focus to racing the 355 Challenge. I have owned it about 5 years now and raced several times with NASA. I didn't race it much this year or last because I was focused on SCCA National events in the RX8.

    We have a small group of Challenge owners here in Texas that race with NASA. I really want to promote a national amateur Ferrari racing series utilizing NASA. I see my role as promoting the series and gathering competitors and sponsors. The event operation, schedule, and rules enforcement will be handled through the current infrastructure of NASA. The Challenge cars currently fit within the NASA National classes of Super Touring 1 & 2. 348 and 355 C in ST2 and 360 and 430 C in ST1.

    I'm looking for input how to organize the series. Challenge cars will be able to compete at any NASA event around the country and qualify for NASA points, contingencies, and trophies for Super Touring. The Ferrari series would only be available to Ferraris and will be scored separately from NASA Super Touring.

    First of all, let me summarize the givens for 2008…

    • 348, 355, 360, and 430 Ferrari Challenge cars are welcome to race with NASA in the Super Touring classes if driver meets qualifications (racing license) and car passes tech.
    • Other Ferrari race cars (vintage, 288/308 GT2, 333, F1) may be welcome to race with NASA if driver meets qualifications (racing license) and car passes tech.
    • NASA organizes regional amateur racing in most areas of the country. Schedule, insurance, registration, tech, and on track sessions all administered by NASA.
    • Ferraris will be grouped with other Super Touring cars and other classes. There will not be a Ferrari only race group.
    • FerrariChat.com will be the first sponsor for this series providing cash contingencies for top finishers. Other sponsors will be welcome.
    • (3) 355 Challenge drivers have already committed to participating in all or some of the 6 weekend (12-18 race) South-Central Region series.

      2008 NASA South-Central Region Schedule
      Feb. 9-10 at MSR Houston
      March 15-16 at MSR Cresson-
      Apr. 19-20 at TWS 2.9 Enduro
      June 21-22 at Hallet
      Aug. 2-3 at TWS 2.9
      Oct. 18-19 at Eagle's Canyon

    What still needs to be done…

    • Properly classify all Ferraris within NASA classes and allowed modifications.
    • Define the various classes within our own Ferrari series. Most likely an Overall Class and then sub-classes similar to NASA structure.
    • Get the word out to Ferrari race car owners and drivers.
    • Gather sponsors for the series. Usually structured as cash, gift certificates, or items around number of participants.
    • Create an online presence with series information.
    • Form a Board of Directors and Regional representatives to promote the series regionally.
     
  2. dinogt4guy

    dinogt4guy F1 Rookie

    Oct 31, 2004
    3,411
    Hewitt, Tx.
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    Kurtis Fordice
    Sounds awsum.....wish I had a race car!

    Where to find a dead gt/4 and turn her into a race car....HHHmmmmm???
     
  3. Tom(Atl)

    Tom(Atl) Formula Junior

    Oct 29, 2006
    509
    USA
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    Can this idea be extended to allow street cars to run in the same classes as well, or to have separate classes for street cars? It would be fun to see 360s run against 360 challenge cars and so on, to see the performance difference. I don't know if this is feasible or wise, but I think it would help the idea catch much faster, and to a wider audience.
     
  4. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Street cars without the minimum safety mods would never ever be allowed to race door to door. However, you are perfectly free to modify a street car for racing. Not sure why you would take a 360 street car for $100k, strip it out, build a roll cage, add racing seats, add a fire system, 5 point harness and still be slower than a 360 C for $90k.

    Most NASA regions do run Driver Education groups for street cars and we want to incorporate that. In Texas, NASA runs an educational and advanced group. You are allowed to run street cars under strict passing rules, but they do provide lap times. The Texas events we'll invite everyone out to run their car, watch the race, and hang out. Instructors are provided for DE groups if needed.

    Entry costs are minimal compared to what you find for Ferrari run racing and track events. Typical NASA weekends cost $250-350.
     
  5. redcar1

    redcar1 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    628
    austin, tx
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    Mark
    Rob,
    I will try to make all that I can. This year I was able to do MSRH in Feb, MSRC in March?, Hallet in July, and I will be in New Orleans in Nov. Are you going to New Orleans? Have you driven No Problem Raceway?

    I haven't made much progress upgrading my car, but did shed a couple hundred pounds. I could ballast back up if several guys start bringing legal type Challenge cars. Even with the weight loss, Porsche Cup cars walk away from me.

    What about Eagles Canyon, is it ready? Two tracks are moving dirt in Austin. Harris Hill and Driveway Austin, although I don't think either will have wheel to wheel racing.

    See you at the track!

    Mark

     
  6. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 28, 2003
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    Texas!
    Rob, as a mere bystander (shaking my head at the idea of anyone racing Ferraris where a mere get off can cost $20k), my 2 cents and change are that I hope you guys are not going to become too dogmatic about "originality." After all, these are race cars...

    For example, I have been told that a 360 Challenge car improves greatly with a wing. Such stuff wasn't legal during the day, but please don't make it illegal if a bunch of guys (and who knows maybe a gal or two) wanna have fun.

    Dale
     
  7. bmiller411

    bmiller411 Formula Junior

    May 6, 2004
    405
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bruce B Miller
    the wing was used in the series. not the first year though but i could be wrong you know old age and all that lol
     
  8. Ed_Long

    Ed_Long Formula Junior

    Nov 11, 2003
    686
    Salem, Oregon USA
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    Ed Long
     
  9. PDX Tifosi

    PDX Tifosi Karting

    Jun 19, 2007
    109
    Vancouver, WA
    Full Name:
    Dan
     
  10. Ed_Long

    Ed_Long Formula Junior

    Nov 11, 2003
    686
    Salem, Oregon USA
    Full Name:
    Ed Long
     
  11. jakermc

    jakermc Formula 3
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    Jan 17, 2004
    1,804
    Palm Beach, FL
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    Rob
    I would suggest you keep the classifications very simple, just reuse the existing ST classifications that NASA is already using. All ST-2 cars will compete with one another in the Ferrari series, all ST-1 cars will compete with one another, older cars that are slower might end up ST-3, etc. This would allow you to utilize NASA to do all your tech and police classification without any additional work. You might call your sub classes STF-1 and STF-2 but they will be in essence ST-1 and ST-2 builds. The hp/wt ratios that NASA uses seems to keep the racing very tight and and the freedom to make mods is great.

    I'm looking forward to sharing a race calendar with you next year. Hopefully the ST classes/Ferrari classes will continue to run in the same race group.
     
  12. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
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    Really thought about New Orleans, but there has been too much on the plate this year and I'm putting a new cage in the Challenge. Have not driven NPR, SCCA and NASA only did a couple races there.

    There will be a class for everything that is brought out and they can race if they meet the driver licensing and car safety requirements. Lightning the car, advanced suspension development, or driveline work may or may not bump you into the next class. Most of that will be handled through NASA. No one wants someone with a bigger budget to win the race because of modifications vs. driving. Mark is as good of a driver or better than me, so he's a DOUBLE threat! :)

    NASA is similar to the SCCA, but more of a business vs. the volunteer model of the SCCA. While SCCA spends 90% of the time talking and only 10% doing, NASA is more customer driven (the racer) and gets things done. No huge political hierarchies and battles among 50-60 year long members bragging about who has the lowest member number. NASA has been eating away more and more at SCCA providing a better racing weekend while also catering better to tracking street cars, import race cars, and regional racers.

    Northern California has a very active NASA region…

    January 19-20: Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca (HPDE only)
    February 9-10: Infineon Raceway (Season opener!)
    March 8-9 Thunderhill Raceway
    April 12-13 Llihrednuht Raceway (Thunderhill Backwards!)
    May 3-4 Infineon Raceway (very tentative)
    June 7-8 Thunderhill Raceway
    June 28-29 Infineon Raceway
    August 9-10 Llihrednuht Raceway (Thunderhill Backwards!)
    September 6-7 TBD
    October 11-12 Thunderhill Raceway
    October 25-26: Infineon Raceway (PRC Only)
    November 7-9 Infineon Raceway (Open Track, HPDE, Legends World Finals)
    December 5-7: Thunderhill Raceway (25 Hour)

    More info: http://www.nasaproracing.com
     
  13. Senna3xWC

    Senna3xWC F1 Rookie

    Nov 30, 2006
    3,152
    NYC
    I don't even race with the SCCA anymore. Strictly NASA with an occasional PCA event.

    Rob, you plan to run any Northeast or Mid-Atlantic events next season?
     
  14. b-mak

    b-mak F1 Veteran

    I did some NASA stuff this season and they run a great program and a real amateur/regional ladder system--from HPDE to race groups.

    More good stuff, Rob.
     
  15. Swil

    Swil Karting

    Jul 21, 2006
    106
    SoCal
    What is the difference between this and the Ferrari Challenge series we see on SpeedTV?
    You mentioned "no Ferrari-only races". Does that mean a Z06 or 997GT3 could enter if meets specs???

    This sounds awesome, I'd love to run in this, any plans on anything in SoCal?
     
  16. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Maybe over next few years, now that I'm not focused on the Runoffs chase I want to experience some different tracks. Laguna is the only cool track I've done outside of South Central. Some on my list are Road Atlanta, Barber, VIR, Lime Rock, and Road America.
     
  17. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Ferrari Challenge costs are upwards of $25k a weekend, a NASA weekend typical runs me around $1,500 at most and that's if I choose new tires.

    Yes, those type of other makes are all eligible for ST1 and ST2. So we'll be scored for NASA overall with other cars, but only Ferraris for our own series. You could win two trophies for each race.

    All you need to do is show up with a race Ferrari at one of the So Cal NASA events, they have an active region. We need regional reps in each area to promote the series and get more than a couple cars out. The good thing is the track will already be full with other makes so the racing will be fun from day 1, but wouldn't it be cool to have 5-10+ Ferraris going at it too.
     
  18. Swil

    Swil Karting

    Jul 21, 2006
    106
    SoCal
    Thanks Rob for your responses.
     
  19. Challenge64

    Challenge64 F1 Veteran
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    Jul 28, 2004
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    I never raced in NASA with my 360 Challenge but did race my Formula mazda in NASA (& SCCA)

    The big difference in the cost here is mostly in transportation. The Ferrari Challenge runs all around the country if not world if you chose to do the Finales. Of the $15k or so that I spent on the Challenge series per weekend, $11k went to the dealer for trackside service and transport. The remaining $4k went to FNA entry fees / hotel /flight.

    Most people will run NASA weekends locally...like I do here in Arizona. The cost savings is hugh when you dont start shipping yourself and your car all about the world.

    But dont be too fooled here. If you want to start spicing up your racing experience with some fluff.. a person could easily spend $5k plus at a NASA weekend.
     
  20. Challenge64

    Challenge64 F1 Veteran
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    oh yea...and Rob. Good idea! Still wish I had a Challenge car to race.
     
  21. Swil

    Swil Karting

    Jul 21, 2006
    106
    SoCal
    Rob I just put up a new thread in this section maybe you can answer my question. 360challenge vs 360 strad.
     
  22. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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  23. redcar1

    redcar1 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    628
    austin, tx
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    Mark
    Rob,
    I'm interested, but I can't get to the link? Probably due to my "unsubscribed" (=unwashed?) status. I suppose I should spring for a membership; it's not the money or the principle at all, I love your site. Truthfully, I already waste too much time here, and subscribing might tempt me that much more.

    Anyway, I'm in the process of repairing my 355C's mildly catastrophic valve break from NPR. I had really been struggling with how far to take the mods on my 355C, and was very inspired by FloridaJeff's Super355. Just as I was opening the floodgates, I had an epiphany combined with a series of massive rationalizations, and bought a 430Challenge.

    The 355C should be ready for next year, but I’m less likely to have many weekends for Texas races. I did drive a 430C on the 1.8 at TWS, and loved it. Once I had driven an F1 transmission racecar, all my purist love for a clutch and floor shift went out the window pretty quickly.

    Mark
     
  24. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 28, 2003
    85,600
    Texas!
    Rob, I couldn't get the link to work either. Probably for the best. While I love to hear Ferraris at the track, I'm just a po boy. Somehow the new Skippy series in the MX-5 car makes a lot more sense.

    Dale
     
  25. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    No, that is just my mistake, everyone should be able to see it. I wondered why no one was viewing it. :) I will fix this weekend.

    430 C is such a great car. Are you doing any Challenge Series or will just track and NASA? The 430 C should fit in ST1 and race all the SCCA BP cars like C6 Z06, Viper, and heavily modified C5's like Kevin Mixon. Or plans to just race the 355 C with NASA?

    I am working with NASA and will have final clarifications on where the Ferraris fit, but most likely 360 and 430 in ST1 and 348 and 355 in ST2.
     

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