News

NEW V8 MID ENGINED MODEL (BIG BROTHER)

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by ajr550, Feb 28, 2019.

  1. noone1

    noone1 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2008
    4,372
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Mike
    #1226 noone1, May 3, 2019
    Last edited: May 3, 2019
    The fact remains though that if you don't force a lot of companies and big businesses to improve environmental things, especially at a cost, they won't do it. They'll lobby as much as they can and fight tooth and nail to save their bottom line.

    Look at the ozone destruction and recovery. That's a real, tangible change and it was done via regulation. The aerosol industry greatly disputed the effects of chlorofluorocarbons. Look at this trash:

    And today? It doesn't even matter. We have all the same products, but they aren't destroying our ozone.

    Then look at the automotive industry. When fuel economy standards didn't get stricter there was no incentive to invest in improvements. Once things got tough, voila, fuel efficiency starts going way up again. And look at VW. They decided it was better to break the law than just make lower performing cars and increasing cost. It's not like they couldn't make their diesels cleaner, it's that they didn't want to for business reasons.

    When it comes to the environment, big business will destroy the Earth before they give up profit. Environmental regulation is extremely important and we should be thankful for it rather than complain about the loss of good sounding engines. Without strict regulations, you'd live in a poisonous environment just like many developing Asia countries.

    Do Ferraris contribute to emissions much? No, but oh well. I'm sure if the exotic car industry came up with some sort of tax penalty/funding for clean research, they could negotiate a pass. How about a 200% tax on Ferraris that gets reinvested into clean energy R&D?
     
  2. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula Junior

    Oct 1, 2004
    766
    Austin TX
    The whole fairytale of CO2 supposedly causing harm that would not independently occur is resulting in some profoundly stupid plans on the part of the EU (I can understand wanting to decrease harmful pollutants such as fine particles, but, there is a limit of usefulness/diminishing returns, for instance banning smoking would be much more effective).

    from this link:
    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281556681_Power_system_impacts_of_electric_vehicles_in_Germany_Charging_with_coal_or_renewables

    Abstract : We analyze the impacts of future scenarios of electric vehicles (EVs) on the German power system, drawing on different assumptions on the charging mode. We find that the impact on the load duration curve strongly differs between charging modes. In a fully user-driven mode, charging largely occurs during daytime and in the evening, when power demand is already high. User-driven charging may thus have to be restricted because of generation adequacy concerns. In contrast, cost-driven charging is carried out during night-time and at times of high PV availability. Using a novel model formulation that allows for simulating intermediate charging modes, we show that even a slight relaxation of fully user-driven charging results in much smoother load profiles. Further, cost-driven EV charging strongly increases the utilization of hard coal and lignite plants in 2030, whereas additional power in the user-driven mode is predominantly generated from natural gas and hard coal. Specific CO2 emissions of EVs are substantially higher than those of the overall power system, and highest under cost-driven charging. Only in additional model runs, in which we link the introduction of EVs to a respective deployment of additional renewables, electric vehicles become largely CO2-neutral.

    from this link:
    https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/e-car-roll-out-take-billions-grid-investment-researchers-explore-alternatives

    The roll-out of electric vehicles in Germany could lead to grid overload in the next five to 10 years if infrastructure isn’t updated, Ralph Diermann writes for Spiegel Online. According to a study by consultancy Oliver Wyman, up to 11 billion euros worth of investment is needed if local distribution grids are to cope with the supply and demand patterns expected at the point where e-vehicles make up around 50 percent of all German cars – unless alternative solutions such as flexible grid management are used, he writes. Utility EnBW is currently experimenting with smart e-car charging solutions in a suburb of Stuttgart and says initial results give cause for optimism that efficient management of charging patterns is possible. However, EnBW project manager Selma Lossau warns that the grid will need investment regardless of other measures. “Charging management and storage capacities will not be enough to guarantee supply security,” she says.

    now, for the fairytale:

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    so, above is reference clearly showing levels of CO2 in the pre-automobile/combustion era, let us 'round it up' and agree that CO2 in parts-per-million concentration at the beginning of the combustion engine era was 290ppm

    Now, as clearly seen above, as the maunder minimum/little ice age was finally loosening its grip CO2 release by nature were increasing.

    Present day, about 145 years later, CO2 concentration is now 410ppm - no disagreement there, however, the difference is 120ppm, and plants, you know, the basis for most foods produced, require CO2 and the more, the better.

    Actually, below 180ppm, plants die due to insufficient CO2 for photosynthesis.

    And, CO2 alarms in nuclear submarines is set to alert when CO2 reaches 8000ppm, so, we are no where near that.

    (notice the red/highlighted areas above are clickable links)

    So, the idea is +120ppm above a recent historical baseline (over the past several millennium) is causing some sort or any sort of negative impact is beyond absurd, in fact, it has been very positive, helping to feed a hungry world with a large population by promoting better plant growth.

    However, the fairytale seems like a good idea to control, and that's the part to realize, the entire effort to control CO2 is really about controlling people/citizens, treating them more like subjects as most people have been over the centuries, apparently those in power want to return to the era of such as situation.

    From importing of uneducated persons who precious few will not become wards of the state to draconian rules and regulations intended to help address some common but imaginary foe, but you realize that it's really not about CO2 at all when you see articles like this:

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2018/06/26/with-pollution-on-the-rise-will-europe-finally-resist-germanys-dirty-war-on-nuclear-power/

    Now realize that 'so called' renewable energy is well known to be inconsistent and most must be backed up with real power plants, well, the whole thing is really something else.

    https://phys.org/news/2019-03-europe-faring-renewable-energy.html

    https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2019/3/4/18216045/renewable-energy-wood-pellets-biomass

    Do you realize that Europe cancelled plans for a solar farm in sub-Sahara? They now believe they can achieve 62% of their power generation via solar, never mind night time, weather, clouds...it'll work out!

    https://www.euractiv.com/section/trade-society/news/desertec-abandons-sahara-solar-power-export-dream/

    For reference of where solar 'stands now' in reality:

    In 2016 Europe total electricity production was 3100 TWh (tera watt hours):
    https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Electricity_production,_consumption_and_market_overview

    In 2016 total Solar contribution was:
    9047 ktoe (keeps you guessing, right? that's kilo tons of oil equivalent)
    reference: see page 23:
    https://www.eea.europa.eu/publications/renewable-energy-in-europe-2018
    https://www.eea.europa.eu/publications/renewable-energy-in-europe-2018/at_download/file

    convert that to kWh: 105,530,620,000
    https://www.unitjuggler.com/convert-energy-from-ktoe-to-kWh.html?val=9074

    finally, convert that to TWh: 105.53
    http://www.kylesconverter.com/energy,-work,-and-heat/kilowatt--hours-to-terawatt-hours

    So, Europe needed/consumed 3100 TWh of electricity in 2016 and Solar contributed 105.53 TWh in that same year, thus solar is currently about 3.4% of total generation.

    So, solar only needs ~18 times that much to be approx. 62% (i.e. 1922 TWh), hmm...solar has VERY LONG way to go to reach that very optimistic 62% of total generation...never mind about 'night time' and other situations...

    Now this thread is totally off the rails!
     
  3. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    5,316
    Bournemouth, UK
    The topic is about the new car, not about "what ifs". Then again, knock yourselves out! :D
     
  4. kandi

    kandi Formula 3

    Jun 27, 2014
    1,318
    I can hardly recognize this thread :D. Where is "BB"? :D
     
    Doug23 and F140C like this.
  5. F142George

    F142George Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 26, 2014
    163
    UK
    Full Name:
    George
    Very confused now, is the BB supposed to be in its own line V8 Hybrid or 812 line successor V12 hybrid?
     
  6. F140C

    F140C Formula Junior

    Nov 25, 2016
    985
    Piedmont
    BB (hybrid V8) will be part of the mid-engined sports car segment, together with the F8.
     
    F2003-GA, F142George and of2worlds like this.
  7. F142George

    F142George Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 26, 2014
    163
    UK
    Full Name:
    George
    Thanks for clearing it up. The reveal list for this year is the BB, 812 Spider, and Dino variant right?
     
  8. F140C

    F140C Formula Junior

    Nov 25, 2016
    985
    Piedmont
    BB in May
    Hybrid Portofino coupé in July
    F8 Spider in September
    812 Spider in October/November

    According to Ferr9000.
     
    Doug23, of2worlds, G. Pepper and 2 others like this.
  9. F2003-GA

    F2003-GA F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 2, 2003
    10,937
    Florida
    Full Name:
    Jaz
    This is unprecedented in Ferrari history 5 cars in a year and thats before a SUV Launch
    Wonder how the demand and supply situation will work out ? Will premiums hold ??
     
  10. noone1

    noone1 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2008
    4,372
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Honestly, I think we're about to enter a downturn in the supercar market in general. I think the market is getting oversupplied in general across all models/brands, and I think the younger audience just isn't replacing the older one at 1:1. Too many new options, buzz for any particular one quickly dissipated by the launch of the next new hot thing, only so many buyers to go around.
     
    Bhh, F2003-GA and ajr550 like this.
  11. F142George

    F142George Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 26, 2014
    163
    UK
    Full Name:
    George
    Agreed, the market is confused in a way. Just think about how many small manufacturers are deciding to build £2 million cars thinking that there is a consumer base for it and somehow that the profit generated from those cars can launch their reputations to be in competition with the likes of Ferrari.

    We now even have SUVs in the off-roading (Jeeps, Defenders, etc), off-roading luxury (Range Rovers), luxury (RRs, Range Rover LWBs), luxury+sporty (SVR, AMG), SSUVS (Lambos). Maybe we will soon see super minivans :D
     
    F140C likes this.
  12. Elisesko

    Elisesko Karting
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 27, 2016
    116
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    John
    If establishing new higher price floors in all segments is a goal (profit maximization with shorter wait lists), the sooner the wait and see what's next approach for buyers goes away the more quickly it's all out on the table perhaps. That list looks to provide the high, the low and the on the way to replaced. Everything else slots in between.
     
  13. F2003-GA

    F2003-GA F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 2, 2003
    10,937
    Florida
    Full Name:
    Jaz
    Hope that makes way for better allocation - I've bought 12 new Ferrari's in the past 21 years and they refused to sell me a Pista
     
    cridom60 likes this.
  14. 4_Eff_Sake

    4_Eff_Sake Formula Junior

    Jul 30, 2016
    430
    Australia
    Full Name:
    Scott
    As per post 1167, plus my post of several months ago about BB, I agree with F140C that F167 is not BB...

     
    Jonathan19 and F140C like this.
  15. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 6, 2004
    13,324
    ON
    Full Name:
    CH
    :eek:

    in the immortal words of Rodney Dangerfield -
    "NO Respect" !
     
  16. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Sep 1, 2010
    6,005
    around Modena, Italy
    Full Name:
    Alberto
    the SUV launch is far to come: At least three years

    ciao
     
    F2003-GA, Doug23 and of2worlds like this.
  17. ferr9000

    ferr9000 Formula Junior

    Feb 13, 2013
    801
    Full Name:
    SFF
    Surprisingly the name has been already decided and there are very few chances that it will be changed.

    It will remind us a Ferrari model launched years ago and also an actual car, a fast one.
     
    mofatmi9, Albert-LP, Doug23 and 11 others like this.
  18. F140C

    F140C Formula Junior

    Nov 25, 2016
    985
    Piedmont
    So it's a name used to describe a very fast car, like "Missile" or "Bolide" (already used by F)..?
     
  19. jumpinjohn

    jumpinjohn Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 22, 2013
    2,382
    Texas
    Full Name:
    John
    I will do stupid things to get a mid engine V12...


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
    Roland1688, j09333 and of2worlds like this.
  20. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 6, 2004
    13,324
    ON
    Full Name:
    CH
    Le Mans
     
    F140C likes this.
  21. j09333

    j09333 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 7, 2004
    612
    How stupid will you go?
    I will sell my other half lol


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
    jumpinjohn likes this.
  22. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

    Feb 21, 2015
    5,372
    #1247 Ferrari 308 GTB, May 3, 2019
    Last edited: May 3, 2019
    Spinta (Thrust, landspeed record holder)

    Just need to add some reminder of a Ferrari from years ago?

    Spintarossa? (Red Thrust)
     
  23. jumpinjohn

    jumpinjohn Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 22, 2013
    2,382
    Texas
    Full Name:
    John
    Hard to know.

    I should leave the forum immediately and stop all auto news from my eyes.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
    j09333 likes this.
  24. SVCalifornia

    SVCalifornia Formula 3

    Mar 28, 2011
    1,755
    Silicon Valley
    Full Name:
    Keith
    F-4ORTY

    SV


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  25. jpalmito

    jpalmito Formula Junior

    Jun 5, 2009
    891
    Le caylar (France)
    So V12 NA plus soft hybrid will survive with F167 ( front engine)
    AND
    testarossa tribute ( icona ) a rear mid engine car ?
     

Share This Page