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NEW V8 MID ENGINED MODEL (BIG BROTHER)

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by ajr550, Feb 28, 2019.

  1. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    Speaking of feeling; the 720s doesn't have electric steering but BB will have EPS?
     
  2. Jas

    Jas Formula Junior

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    Not a strategic decision at all - after all carbon is chosen for Ferarri's hypercars. And McLaren's suspension was criticised in previous incarnations, not on the 720S. Pista ought to be quicker around a track, as that is what it is purpose designed for, although 720S will beat it in a straight line. I'd bet the F8 will lag behind 720S in a straight line and track, but we will know only when customer cars are delivered. And that's despite it being a 2 year newer model.

    So yes, Ferrari are lagging behind the competition whether fans want to admit it or not.

    I want to see Ferrari significantly up their game and take the lead, which will mean better cars all round whatever the brand.
     
  3. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    Sure it is a strategic decision. The carbon that Ferrari uses for their hypercars is not practical on a 488 price point. Aluminum has it's own benefits to in production time plus finish quality and the weight difference is not that dramatic considering the kind of carbon McLaren utilizes. Which has easier access and egress a McLaren or 488? How does carbon age vs aluminum? Which is easier to repair? It is not simply about carbon vs aluminum without considering the benefits and drawbacks of each construction version.
     
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  4. ferrarifanatic25

    ferrarifanatic25 Formula Junior

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    ???

    This is literally the perfect case study of a strategic decision. There will always be trade offs when it comes time to make a business decision. Ferrari made their decisions and yes you are correct, carbon is likely superior from a performance standpoint... but Ferrari views the trade off in price and reliability/longevity to be worth the minor decrease in performance. If that’s not a strategic decision then I don’t know what is?


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  5. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

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    I think that 's a given.
     
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  6. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

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    Even if one of two cars is a few tenths quicker here or there, it doesn 't mean that the other is lagging behind in overall performance, especially when in other metrics the situation might be reversed.

    Regarding the strategic nature of the decision to use aluminium, of2worlds and ferrarifanatic25 have already covered me.
     
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  7. Luque

    Luque Formula Junior

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    I don't think the game is played in the performance field but rather in the driving experience. McLaren focuses on car weight but with same drawbacks. The carbon monocage is great for stiffness and weight reduction but it is a nightmare in case of verification after crash and for NVH performance. It is not accidental that al Pirelli tires (except Trofeo R) marked MC1 (for McLaren models) have noise cancelling system technology (PNCS) to reduces the frequency filtering through the body of the car. Macca still uses and open differential that reduce weight but at the end of the day also Porsche followed Ferrari introducing an electronically controlled, fully-variable rear differential lock. Also the Tenneco Kinetic H2 suspension system (improved a lot during years) is anachronistic. It was already in 2000's for a sport cars. No one is following McLaren, Porsche has developed a more clever system (PDCC) and the same McLaren 600LT with conventional suspension with anti roll bars seems to offer a better driving experience in comparison to the 720s. Ferrari introduced a rear multilink suspension from 2008 (California) and than in all models adding more weight in their cars (compared to double wishbone) but assuring the best compromise in term of comfort and handling. Ferrari is not lagging behind the competition at all, my friend.
     
  8. F2003-GA

    F2003-GA F1 World Champ
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    Well said my friend
     
  9. jjmalez

    jjmalez F1 Rookie
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    Was your relationship with the same Ferrari dealership for all (or most) of the 12 Ferrari's?

    Just wondering.
     
  10. F2003-GA

    F2003-GA F1 World Champ
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    10 of the 12 are same dealer the other 2 were F355's from the 90's
     
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  11. galt

    galt Formula 3
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    There is a perfectly good case for choosing carbon for the hypercars and not for the more mainstream cars. Others have pointed to some of the tradeoffs.

    For me, it is just much easier and practical to use a car that has conventional doors and normal width door sills. It makes entry and exit easier and increases the interior space. That is less of a consideration in a LaFerrari than compared to a daily driveable sports car. Obviously others will have a preference--but that is the point it is a preference.

    Also, there really is not a credible argument that says Ferrari could not build a cheaper carbon chassis car. Clearly it can be done and has been done for even a cheaper price point than the McLaren---look at the Modena built Alfa Romeo 4C.

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  12. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Rookie
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    The driving experience is subjective so leave this out. Carbon has many benefits - 10x the rigidity of steel, and a fraction of the weight which are ideal in performance cars. The suspension technology in the 720s provides the ideal performance and daily usability. I wouldn't use Porsche as the benchmark here - they are mass producing 911's like Camrys. Ferrari does just enough to sell cars and there are loyalists who will buy whatever they produce no matter what. The others have to be a step or two ahead to sell cars. My impartial opinion is that the 720 is brilliant but not perfect - I think this is because McLaren needs to get their **** together. They are too inconsistent with how they do things. As McLaren matures they will continue to give competitors a run for their money. I will also say at some point, probably sooner than later the performance between these cars will be negligible so the mfr's will have to win with better styling, amenities, customer service and overall quality. I am in the market for another car right now and bouncing al lover the place.

    My DD is a 19' GT3 manual which has been a blast but I may pick up something a bit more special. Options are another 720, Pista, Perf or Aventador.
     
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  13. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Rookie
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    Entry into a 72o couldn't be easier, you can almost stand straight up while getting in + you dont have to worry about huge, heavy doors swinging open.

    Ferrari hasn't needed to really step their game up until recently, watch how things change going forward. I bet the F8 replacement will be incredible.
     
  14. IPO1

    IPO1 F1 Rookie
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    Add Evo to list...would get over Perf at this point (and forget Aventador--trans are sh*t).

    Good luck in decision. At this point a Pista would be next year IF you can get allocation, so I see Lambo or another 720 in your immediate future. Then by the time 7xxLT will be announced (maybe) and Pista will be long gone in thought process :cool:
     
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  15. galt

    galt Formula 3
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    But you would agree that the sills are wider and the cabin narrower...that is the trade-off...I have never been in a carbon fiber car where that is not the case.

    Also, I find it easier to get into a 488 than a 720. Most people I know would say the same. Also much easier for me to close the doors--maybe part of that is habit and practice. Not to mention, I am not a huge fan of the "show" the upward doors make--that is the least important concern but on the margin can effect how the car is used.

    720 is a great car and, here I am not saying one is better than the other--just that there are obvious tradeoffs when choosing a carbon tubbed car vs aluminum stricture. Not quite sure how that point could be denied. Preferences that are subjective can play a big roll on those decisions regarding the trade-off. Subjective decisions are neither right or wrong of course.



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  16. ingegnere

    ingegnere Formula 3
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    The “blurred” picture showing the front is probably the H2 (I think) by Pininfarina. This has a bit of a pointed nose, but also has body colored front spoiler and the base of the windshield set farther back than I expect with BB.
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  17. ingegnere

    ingegnere Formula 3
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    #2317 ingegnere, May 27, 2019
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
    The arch that is being referred to was visible on some mules and noted by me in previous posts and indicated by arrows in picture below.

    Since this arch is very low down, I don’t believe it is the roof trailing edge but rather the opening for the rear view across the back and between the sail panels, like J50. But it could be the roof trailing that extends quite far back and tapers down very low. Expect a flat engine deck below this and between the sail panels.
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  18. ingegnere

    ingegnere Formula 3
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    From the promo pic (shot from behind and below rear deck) it looks like they’re showing the roof and the arch looks like it will be a sort of 2-tier roof, maybe to accommodate the targa type roof that was mentioned in this thread.

    Whatever the arch is, the rear view out looks somewhat limited. Also, it would disprove the veracity of the “blurred” picture since this area is not defined it the of the back of the car.

    Also below, a possible arrangement of the rear lights:
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  19. red passion

    red passion Formula Junior

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    All these considerations make perfect sense if we are talking about cars like an 812. But honestly, how many additional models which can be easily and comfortably used as a daily driver do we need? Part of what made Ferrari what it is today, is due to building uncompromised and extreme cars - cars that have been a real occasion to drive. Don’t get me wrong I don’t say Ferrari should only build die-hard race cars for the road, but please let some of them just be less compromised. It certainly wouldn’t hurt the brand image either.
     
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  20. galt

    galt Formula 3
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    Well really there are not that many mid-engined cars to choose from. In fact, there really is only one to choose not counting specials. So is it really that extreme?

    I think introducing a more extreme mid-engined car between the current f8/488 level and their ultimate sports car offering makes sense. For that car it may make sense to do a carbon tub--although for me it is not essential. Sounds like they may essentially do this.

    Obviously the front engined cars areba different story.

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  21. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Rookie
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    Yes the sills are a bit wider but I never considered it an issue for me and the cabin is just right.

    Just personal preference. The dihedral doors are part of the experience which many including myself prefer. You have to spend about $3M with Ferrari for this feature. :)
     
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  22. ingegnere

    ingegnere Formula 3
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    You know that when McLaren launched their MC12 they recruited an ex-Ferrari Italian to lead the composite chassis team. So pretty sure Ferrari know how to make a composite chassis.

    Also, who is using a full active suspension currently or ever in production except for Infiniti?
     
  23. crinoid

    crinoid F1 Veteran
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    I agree with all you’re saying. I do think the taillights will be squared with rounded corners. That rear window treatment seems to be P80C and the rear of it has that horizontal vent/slit things that’s like the 458 MM SP car. I’m wondering how much on this car we haven’t seen before...?
     
  24. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    Is the white horizontal aero bit behind the rear window a spoiler using the same idea as found on P80/C just behind it's rear window to?

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  25. 4re4ever

    4re4ever Formula Junior

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    Also some part lines coming off the roof. I think the spoiler has a cut out in the center too and below that a piler like on the back of the La Ferrari
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