Newbie -- 308GTS pending purchase need advice!

Hey guys it's my first time to this board. I have a 1969 Mercedes 280SL (yeah I know it's a girl's car) and a 1970 Porsche 914-6 that I've just finishing restoring. Those are the semi garage queens although I have no problem taking them on road trips. I also have a 1986 Porsche Carrera Coupe, my first “toy” that I still love. Tough as nails.

I've been on the BBSs for those cars and have seen the newbie posts. Now I know what it feels like!

Anyway a friend who has seen my old cars said he has a friend who has a low mileage (around 5K) 1985 308 GTS for sale. He knows I've always wanted a Ferrari ever since I told him what it felt like to drive a 328 (like a big original Toyota MR2 and I loved those!).

I believe 1985 is the last year for the 308 and it has 4 valves per cylinder and the fuel injection. That makes it desirable among 308s but I'm not sure where the 308s stack up against the 328s, 348s, etc.

It's a little Magnum PI I suppose but except for that a purer car, I think, than a 328 or the forgettable 348. Having said that I LOVE the 355s but can’t afford.

What can you tell me about the 1985 308s? How does the fun to drive compare to a 3.2L Carrera? What would be a fair price for a 1 owner pristine example?

I know that you need to allow more money for maintenance and repairs than for a 911 or 280SL but how much more?

Should I be excited about this pending purchase?!

Look forward to your comments and advice. Pete.

 

I don't want to be a buzzkill here, but I wouldn't even consider a 20 year old car, especially a Ferrari, with only 5k miles. These cars NEED to be driven.

 

You must get a PPI on any Ferrari, or you might inherit surprises which can cost MORE than your purchase price!
A 5k car (if this is indeed true) is likely a garage queen and will have related issues. Also, at this mileage she is probably has the original belts. Welcome, and Best wishes

BTW, I don't think any Ferrari is "unforgettable". Buy the best example you can afford of whatever model you like, and drive the HELL and maintain the HELL out of it [best fun you can have by yourself]!

 

Only buy one with a known history, get a ppi, make sure 30k mile service (belts) have been done and DOCUMENTED recently, if not budget 3-4,000 for that, then put 5k away for first year "making it right money" then budget 3k a year after that and you should be good !
They are not cheap (even though they are one of the cheapeast Ferrari's to live with. BUT they are a BLAST !!! And good lookers too !

 

a one owener true prisitine car will push 45,000,(even higher depending on who's looking to buy) a very good (show type car) will run 35-40k, avg will be $33-35 and steal deals on a "good" car will be 28-30.

These are SELLING prices, asking prices are gen 2-4k higher than selling

 

A 5k mileage 308 QV will have an ask of well over $40k unless it's been stored poorly and is deteriorated. Even with thoughtful storage, it's going to be a REALLY needy car when you get it. You seem like a car guy so there's no need to go into details, but if you're unfamilliar with Ferrari parts prices, do some homework. If you do your own work it won't be awful but it won't be cheap either.

You'll be in over $50k and then you can't drive the thing or your "investment" will plummet to a value in the mid $30k range, which is where nice QV's with 30-50k miles sell.

If you want a 308, I'd say look for a car in the $30k range that has enough miles that it's been driven. Books, records, etc. are critical of course. Cars with nothing are usually the ones you see in the $20's.

Ken

 

Keep in mind that a true 5k mile car will have ZERO bloster/seat wear, no rubber pedal pad wear (gas pedal should still be black metal not worn to silver),

keep in mind it takes about 15 secs to disconnect the Odometer on this cars (just undo one nut) so MOST 308's have a sometime been disconnected. ESPECIALLY anything under 35k miles.

 

IF your seller has ALL of the maintenance records, back to the original paperwork when the car was purchased from the dealer, you can easily reconstruct the mileage. If the maintenance records have big gaps (usually the first 10-15 years are missing), then you have to assume that the mileage is much higher than 5k. You hear the term "stories" a lot when looking a high dollar old cars. Stories are what sellers try to substitute for maintenance records. Another word for stories, unless they can prove differently, is LIES.

No records. No purchase. It's that simple.

 

PPI.

 

It definately has fuel injection however QV (4-vlave) was still an option in '85 (I believe). It could be a 2-valve car which is less desirable... so check it out

All good advice above.

 

Those posts were very helpful guys, thank you very much.

Regarding the PPI if anyone knows of a good Ferrari mechanic in the Southern California area please let me know.

I'm going to find out more about the car and if I have any Qs get back to you all.

Thanks again. Pete

 

All 85's are QV's. C'mon Bob, you should know that.

 

Geez almost forgot to ask what was the lineage on the mid-engine V8s... 308s from 76 - 85?, 328 from 86 - ??, etc. Wasn't there some sort of 2+2 308 before the 2-seater?

Also which are considered the "best" years for the 308s?

Are the values for coupes and targa cars the same?

Just trying to put this pending purchase into perspective. For the Porsche 911 the pros and cons change a lot from generation to generation and even within generations. You should see the debate over which 3.2L series Carrera, which ran from 84 - 89, had the better transmission!

 

Yes, the 308GT4. 4 seater, 2 door, Bertone design.

The common wisdom is that the early carbed cars, pre-smog, the 76-77's, and the 83-85 QV's are the "best" years.

For the most part, yes. You'll see very few coupes as they didn't make nearly as many.

 

BEFORE I BOUGHT MY 328 I WAS UNDECIDED BETWEEN THE 308 AND 328, BUT ALL IT TOOK WAS TO DRIVE BOTH CARS. THE 308 IS A GREAT CAR, BUT THE 328 IS THAT MUCH BETTER. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE SELLER IS ASKING FOR A LOW MILEAGE 308, BUT I WOULD SPEND ALITTLE EXTRA AND GET INTO A 328. I CURRENTLY HAVE TO SELL MY 328 BECAUSE OF ANOTHER FINANCIAL RESPONSIBILITY, BUT IN THE FUTURE I WILL BUY ANOTHER ONE.

 

Well, now you've gone ahead and alienated a great number of people, and all in your first porst too!

Congrats.

 

mark328 where is it for sale? lets see it.

 

My excitement level would depend on the price (Auto Palace has a 5700 mile Euro version 308 for $57,500 - ouch) and whether the miles were put on recently or a long time ago.

I'd echo the comments here about being wary if it had 4500 miles in 1990 and then sat around for 15 years letting bushings, seals and bearings deteriorate. But if it's had a lot of recent use, and there are recent service records showing that the cam belt service (not just the belt, but the tensioner bearings, valve adjustment, etc.) was done, it might be a great car.

The PPI (pre purchase inspection), with compression and leakdown tests, should tell you if the car has major engine problems. I wouldn't be surprised if it had bad hydraulics (calipers), shocks and some other items that are costly but not deal breakers.

If the price is great, (low $40K range), I'd buy it and plan to put $10K into it. Then you'd have a well-sorted 308 with ultra-low miles. I actually feel better about spending money on low mileage cars because after you write the checks you'll have a car you sell easily if you wanted to.

As far as driving, the 308 is a lot more 'raw' than a 911. I've driven an '84 and '87, owned a '96. Porsche really upgraded the gearbox in '87, I believe, so your '86 probably takes some skill to shift smoothly - as a 308 does. IMO the 911's and 308/328 are very different animals, despite the similar horsepower ratings for the years you're talking about. The 308's louder and more visceral, more involving. It lacks power steering. The 911 is extremely capable, mechanically better thought out, and fast in a business-like kind of way. It's easier to drive. Make sure you like the way the pedals, steering wheel and shift lever fit you in the 308. 308 ergonomics are pretty marginal, even compared to the old 911 (which didn't take home any trophies in this area either...) If you're a tall guy with wide feet, you might find the 308 a little tight.

Final note ... yeah, the 308 is "purer" than the 328 or 348, but almost everyone will tell you the 328 is better due to improved electrical systems/ignition, and other bits and parts. Like you, I prefer the aesthetics of the 308, but the 328 is also "pure" in that it uses a tubular frame chassis design, lacks power steering and is largely computer-free, unlike the Ferraris that came after it.

 

Pete,

It's up to you to be excited about the purchase. If you're not, pass.

Regarding the PPI, I would suggest making a post in the California section of the forum. You may get some responses there. Get the darn PPI. Regardless of the results, it's the best money you can spend on a car which information is limited.

Do not be fooled by the low mileage stigma. My first car, a '77 308 GTB, had 25,466 miles and an excellent PPI. My current car, a '81 308 GTSi, has 95K miles and runs better than the '77. The key is maintenance.

Buy the best car you can afford and maintain. I could've afforded an O.K. QV but may not have had money left over to maintain it. I'm happy having my 2V that's in excellent condition and affordable to maintain.

Good Luck.

Dane

 

Dang Jimpo, time for me to go back to FiatChat.com.

 

Joshua I realized that after I hit submit but it was too late! I blame it on my bad manners from those "other" boards.

And I really did forget what the 348 was... a successor to the 308 / 328 or the Mondial? I'm sure it's a wonderful car.

These responses were great I am definitely going to check it out. The guy who has is a friend of a friend so I don't know him personally just met a couple of times. Sharp guy, definitely not one to let the car sit if driving it occasionally would be better for the seals etc.

 

The 348 actually was not a successor to anything. It came after the 328, but was an entirely new car. The 355 succeeded the 348 (evolved from it may be a better description), then came the 360 as a new car, evolved into the 430, etc, etc.

Mondi was a whole different deal. Used the same engine as whatever concurrent 3x8 was being built.

 

OK I got it now. I've always seen the 360 evolving / replacing / whatever the 355, that the 328, that the 308. Hear the F430 is fantastic.

The 348 must be kind of like the 964 series in the 911 Porsche world. Not as memorable, long lived or perhaps loved as others in the series but with its own group of fans nevertheless.

My favorites in this series are the 308s and 355s from a purely looks and what I've read POV.

 

I think that may be a good analogy. The 964 was to the 348 what the 993 was to the 355.