Newbie questions related to 308's

The major service is typically a 5-year / 15K mile exercise. The good thing about you living in a more remote area is that you will come to depend on and improve your mechanical abilities. It will pay off. Don't become scared of the major service. Do lots of reading, lots of preparation, and you'll be able to accomplish it yourself.

One last thought...if at all possible, try to put more than 500 miles a year on the car. They love to be driven. My car definitely lets me know when I haven't driven her in a while (lets say more than 2 weeks).

 

500 miles a year.....It must of been a typo. You meant to say 5000. Right?

 

Tom,
this will probably come accross negetivly, but i wan't you to see the 'picture' of these cars. no offense to you.

fluids are corrosive, even the grease in the car. the longer they sit the more destructive they become. the chemical reaction just keeps eating away. 500 miles a yr is akin to moving it in the garage. the leangth of time it will sit will speed up the proccess faster. no car can be left for long periods without problems however ferraris are at the top for falling apart when left alone.

when driving the car you cycle it through a temp range that burns off water and oxygen that accumulated from the last time it was parked. rubber is cycled through it's elastomeric stage and the grease is worked thru also, keeping the parts 'fresh'. gas gets used and has less chance of turning to varnish.

so as we can see it's not in the best interest to let a car sit. sure lots of cars are left to sit, the big difference here is the cost of or lack of replacement parts for the early ferraris'. replacing a motor on most any car is less than 1k it can be 10x that for the 308!

if you really want one who are we to say no? have fun and enjoy it. i think we all like that your asking about the service and milage. however in your particular case i think that the service would be dictated by time and lack of milage, it will be costly. it would be cheaper to drive it more than 500 in a yr than not.

i'll give an example, i have a '81 mondial 8 same motor as the 308. i have not even come up on 1yr yet and i've spent at least 5k on replacement of worn items. the car is in great shape and the motor was rebuilt 2yrs and 20k ago.i drive it at least 3~5times a week. i just pulled the motor for a service and to address some other things. the first yr is probably the most expensive as i want to correct the majority of things that bug me and make sure it in top runnig condition, note i didn't say top concourse condition. that's a difference of a thousands of dollars!

the next yr after and beyond i figure it will cost me 1k~2k a yr. and thats with driving 10k~12k miles. 500 miles a yr will have alot of consumables rdying out and rotting on you. the hoses although inexpensive are a real PITA to get at!

here's the payoff, driving the car! to me the cost is offest by the amount of 'seat' time i get. makes it all worth it. i feal that at 500 miles a yr you may not get that satisfaction and sell the car due to constant service cost.

i hope that answers some questions, the cars are FUN! and you'll wonder why you waited to buy one. at least i did, took me 15yrs and lots of cars before i got here. they truely fit the 'high maintanence misstress'. make an informed discision and you'll have more smiles per mile.

my half cent addition.

 

Tom,

I second the opinions of using the car as much as possible. My '82 GTSi is about to roll over 80K miles in 10 more turns of the ticker and the car is as reliable and trustworthy as my daily driver MB. I think I've put at least 5K on the car this year already and that's since May!

Find one that's had a recent service and use the heck out of it. And as mentioned previously in this thread, it's crucial to keep up on fluid changes even if the car isn't used. All of my antique cars get their oil changed every 3 months even if they've been stored, same goes for coolant, brake fluid, gear oil, etc..just longer intervals. Sure I know it feels wasteful to go into the garage in the middle of winter to change oil that has zero miles on it, but research shows that the oil does still break down with time and develops some harmful properties. Synthetic might not be in the same boat, but even still I like to keep it fresh.

Cheers,
Aaron
'82 GTSi

 

Tom,

I'll agree with all the comments about 500 miles being too low. Can't add much except to say that the worst my 328 ever ran was after a couple of months of zero miles and a cross-country trip in the back of a truck. Since then, she's been a sweetheart.

The official service interval for these belt-driven V8s, according to Ferrari, is 3 years (not sure what the mileage limit is, but almost no one hits that...) A lot of people think that's overkill, and they may be right, but that's what Ferrari says in its service bulletin. Expect to pay $3K-$4K for a complete major service, assuming the car is in fine shape otherwise.

You should be able to find a top-notch independent mechanic nearby who can work on your car, if only because the 308's are pretty simple machines. Parts are often expensive and may need to be shipped from elsewhere. But the Bosch K-Jetronic fuel injection, simple disc brakes, single-plate clutch, etc., aren't all that exotic. I would put some effort into finding a good mechanic nearby before you buy anything. Alternatively, I've talked to one owner who lived out "in the sticks" in Virginia, and she shipped her car to Ferrari of Washington for the major servicing.

If you're not in the market for a 328, which seems to suffer less from being idle, the later 308's may be your best bet in terms of requiring less mechanical attention. But they're all old Ferraris, with everything that entails. If you can't squeeze more than 500 miles of seat time out of it, I'd say go get a Land Rover Defender or something you can get some use from.

 

Tom,
Thanks, I'm glad the article helped you.

To answer your question about service intervals, when you are dealing with a car that doesn't get driven much, mileage is pretty much irrelevent to the service intervals. It is all about time, not mileage.

The general concensus around here is a MAXIMUM of 5 years between timing belt changes, but 3 years is optimum. If you don't put a lot of miles on the car, you don't need to do a full "major" (i.e. major service) every time because the valves won't need to be adjusted with only a few thousand miles between services. But losing a timing belt is BAD (pistons hit the valves) and they seem to die more as a function of age than mileage.

Doing the timing belts on a 308/328 is really not a bad job at all and can be done in a day or two. These are actually fairly simple and straightforward cars to service, not a biggie at all to maintain yourself.

Birdman

 

With a Corvette, you can drop in another inexpensive engine any time you want. With a Ferrari, you're looking at $10K+ for a V8 rebuild. So a lot of people put the miles on slowly. Also, not sure how valid the comparison is between a pushrod engine and the Ferrari's cam/belt design.

I believe you can drive a car 1500-2000 miles annually and it will be fine, if these are "quality" miles and not just short grocery runs or one 1500-mile trip during the summer -- i.e., run it regularly. I'm sure all of these cars have gone through periods of being garage art/trailer queens and then periods of active use. Also, not to scare you, but Ferrari odometers (1) aren't super reliable, meaning many have failed and been replaced and (2) are easy to disconnect on the 308/328.

Apart from wanting to preserve the car for posterity, which I think is OK, there's a practical aspect. There are many, many places I can't really drive mine. I did some volunteer work at a boys/girls club in an underprivileged part of town and drove my Jeep there. Grocery-getting -- need a bigger trunk. Airport runs -- need luggage space. Summer trip to Phoenix -- need modern A/C and comfort for the freeway. Etc. Also, the 328 is happiest when it's properly warmed up, and I often don't have time for that and it's easier to drive something more mundane. Taken together, this is why my 328 is never going to be a 10,000-mile-per-year car, or even a 5K annually car. Also, keep in mind Ferraris tended to be bought originally by very wealthy businessmen who don't have a lot of spare time to drive around. Even in my case, my travel schedule means my car can sit for a couple of weeks at a time.

Nice 328's are closer to $50K.

 

A 308/328/Mondial timing belt change isn't a lot different from doing a timing belt on any other car. There are some niggling details that are covered in the shop manual & prior posts.

A 3x8 belt change is usually easier than a typical front drive 4-cam engine belt change because there's better access to the belt end of the engine.

The 328 was basicly a displacement increase to the QV engine, minor body restyling, & more electronics used for interior controls (push buttons instead of levers & cables). No differences that would affect long term storage.

IMHO, those 328 electronic controls are going to start becoming a major issue as the replacements run out, & the rubber & plastic continues to age. The earlier mechanical controls are something that almost anyone can repair themselves.

I live in MA, so my '82 308 Euro QV comes off of the road for salt season as well. I don't have climate controlled storage, but haven't seen any signs of problems due to not having it.

You can get a well sorted out QV for the middle of your price range, and an exceptionaly clean one for the high end. Most carb'd 308s run from the high teens to around $30K for an exceptionial one.

Be very careful when shopping as it's common for the final sale price to be significantly less than the asking price. Also for the actual condition to be different from the alleged condition. It's the usual used car game, but the stakes are higher...

 

You may not think this this is a fair comparison either, but it's probably better than comparing a GM engine; To wit, My Alfa 2.0 (albeit with a chain instead of a belt) has nearly 300K miles on it.

I'm replacing it with a GT4. And I expect to drive it the same! With a little different maintenance schedule, of course.

Same with my Alfa. It's getting ready to turn 200K.

Another reason for the GT4!

I on the other hand, am going to try to set a record.

On the other hand, I'm not a wealthy businessman. And that's why mine is a GT4.

So you see Sting Ray? There are a lot of different ways to look at it, depending on your needs and how they balance with your desires.

I believe Verell is correct about the timing-belts, although I haven't done them yet, I'm currently staring at them as I work on another problem and wondering if I ought to bite-the-bullet and do them. It looks easy enough, as I've already done the difficult part. The last time I had to change a belt though, was when one broke on a '72 Pinto. And that was a REAL PITA to change. Parked on Santa Monica Blvd., in Hollywood, during summer heat and heavy traffic, with the equivelant of K-Mart tools!

If you're at all mechanically inclined, go for it. And drive it as much, or as little as you like. If you're not mechanically inclined, buy the best you can afford, and keep a nice reserve. If I had to pay for maintenance, I'd have bought a Toyota instead.

Best of luck to you. Let us know what you finally decide to do. And when you do it, make sure you "Share the experience".


















Nice 328's are closer to $50K.[/QUOTE]

 

The engine is an interference design.