Newbies to Automotive Repair have it Damn easy compared to us Old Timers

While there might be lots of information on the web a lot of it has improper procedures or are missing steps. Be very careful with some of the stuff out there.

 

I disagree that Newbies have it easier than Oldtimers.
Newbies still need to buy all the tools that they will need to do the job at $$$$$

 

I was just having a similar conversation with a friend recently. Information is all too easy to find these days... or at least what people perceive as information. The Achilles' heel of this situation is the misinformation that passes as fact, and the empty minds & super inflated sense of ego that results from such. We now have legions of armchair warriors and a national "flock" mentality. It's kind of sad.

 

OBDII, a $99 scan tool practically fixes the car for you on many 1996 and newer cars.

 

I too disagree. With older cars you could screw up lots and the engine would still run. Plus the electricals were virtually non-existant. Flat head Fords didn't need a AAV WUR LSMFT.

Give me any carbed, breaker point, manual transmission car (i.e. pre 70s) and I'll change the oil, plugs, and lube the chassis every 40k-50k year, do short block at 150k and have a more reliable lifetime daily driver than any newer car out there.

 

I agree. I have said many times that I would not have been able or even willing to do half the work I have on my 308 without sources like this very site and the vast knowledge that is on tap!! That doesn't even take into account the parts sources on line that make finding things much easier!!

Comparing new and old cars though, there are times when it doesn't matter how much information is out there it's still nearly impossible for the DIY'er to work on the newer ones.

 

Read my signature.

 

Good luck with that. If you have a wire harness issue or a bad ground an OBD II scanner can have you spending $$$ replacing sensors only to never fix the issue.

 

I was giving that somewhat "tongue in cheek" (note the icon). My girlfriend's '99 minivan is the biggest pain to fix, I've had several quirky wiring harness issues with it that took days to fix.

 

That's a tough argument either way. I know how to set points in a pinch with a matchbook as a gap tool. I've found the coil wire wore thin and broke on an old beetle when we were stranded once. Another time the ignition cylinder fell apart internally while on the road and I was able to hot wire the car and get to my destination. Of course I'm older and have newer cars now but it's been a long time since I've had a failure. At 100K we got a check engine on our daily driver and for under $200 at the dealer we were set. Granted I didn't even try to figure it out. I like having old cars to play with and modern cars to drive without worry, backfire, breakdown, high elevation issues, cold start, hot start issues (at least on my daily drivers). But I don't think that's the thread, it's who had it easier. From the mid 70's on the engine bay got more intimidating but it was only so much more junk. I never even needed to know what the junk was to replace parts, label, remove, fix offending piece, replace all gizmos where they came from and presto, car runs. I guess I stand with the old stuff was easier to fix but went wrong more often or needed more periodic attention. I'd rather fix old if I had to fix something but I'd rather drive a new car to get to work or a customers house reliably.

 

I can't agree. So soon we forget. No way are the old cars more reliable than now. Not even close. Tires: When's the last time you had a flat? Carbs: They were crap. Had to start three times before they'd keep running. Here's a contradiction in terms: "Automatic" choke. Cold start now: Get in, turn key, engine starts. No pumping the pedal frantically, nothing. HEVAC: Try clearing the windows in the winter or high humidity. A/C is virtually standard nowadays. It was nearly non-existent in the "good old days". Does anyone really want "points and condensor" ignition? Disc vs. drum brakes? Safety: Do I even have to give examples? I've been there, "the good old cars" SUCKED!
I will admit that when the old cars broke down, they were easier to diagnose and fix. But here's the thing, the new cars don't (comparatively) break down!

 

So true.
Information and knowledge are two different things. I have a friend who is a walking encyclopedia of Ford information. Ask him what the valve lash is on his 427 Cobra and he'll give you the ranges for intake and exhaust, hot and cold... hand him the tools and he's at a total loss to actually do the work.

So many kids today stand around their cars and talk about all the cool things they've HEARD they can do to their cars and have no clue as to how to actually do it or what the ramifications are of some of the stupid things they do because their friend showed them something on a website...

Nephew lowered his Acura following some stupid website's directions... now he has so much bump steer the car is virtually undriveable. BUT... it looks cool.

Brian's tag line says it all.

Rick

 

My early cars always got me home, even the MGA that dropped a valve. Modern stuff has so much more to go wrong, and go wrong it does... like the 'door open' sensor that drained my battery & stranded me. The failure penalty is often greater than the benefit (in this case, of knowing that a door might be ajar).

Colin Chapman had it right, "Simplify and add lightness."

PS: Perhaps the fact that I'm older affects my views, I've had longer to become prejudiced.

 

Those of us who are old enough to have real life experiences in a wide age range of cars all too often look back nostalgically with firmly affixed rose colored glasses. Cars of the 50's and 60's can come nowhere close to the ease of operation, reliability and low cost of operation of modern cars.

The servicing requirements for many of them adjusted to modern money is considerably more than some new cars cost.

 

How many miles did you put on that MGA? I have had a long string of daily drivers all with 125,000 to 200,000 miles I retired with no major repairs. The most expensive part I have replaced was a radiator. Several I did one set of tires and one set of brake pads and a few oil changes. Cars of the 50's needed major component replacement or rebuilds before getting to six figure mileage and that was only if a great deal of routine servicing was done in between.

I forgot, I had to replace the spider gears in one of my Mustang GT's but that was because I dumped the clutch in it so often. But I never did replace the clutch in 135,000 miles and it got one set of spark plugs and a couple of air filters in that time.

 

New cars do too much for you. I want to be the brains of the thing. I can turn my lights on and off myself. Same goes for the wipers. New cars are too complex. Far too much to go wrong. Way too much electronics for me. I guess I'm just to old to understand. Times change and so do the way things are fixed. My hat is off to the guy who can fix the new cars when something goes haywire and not have to replace everything to fix it. A good one will go right to the problem.

 

Amen!

 

The more things change the more they stay the same. The bright guys out there can solve problems and the slower guys have a harder time. The point of the original post is true- it's easier than ever to get information. What one does with the info is always the question to be answered. Brakes and suspension issues were and are easy money. Running and electronic issues were and still can be difficult. I agree cars are much more dependable than ever. However they still break, they don't follow the script, and the problems still require thought. The only real difference is that I have almost as much as I paid for my first house invested in scan tools. although I do use the one I paid $100 for the most.
I don't see things changing any time soon.
Cheers,
TomB

 

You make my point.

Running gear may not break down but electrico-mechanical systems do. My many many thousands of garage expenses have been spent on Cruise control, A/C, power windows, rear window defrosters, stereo, power steering, mirror control, Blueteeth, eDiff, OnStar, windshield washers, powered doorlocks, etc etc etc.

CEL on a '37 Ford? No, you listened to the engine to know it worked well or needed nursing. And patched inner tubes at the side of the road. Bottom line - Pre Chilton cars didn't require a manual.

 

Every man needs two kinds of cars:
A German car because they are solid, reliable and dependable
An Italian car because they are exotic, expensive and flashy.

Every man needs two kinds of women:
A German wife because they are solid, reliable and dependable
An Italian girlfriend because they are exotic, expensive and flashy

This had been my philosophy until my whole world went to hell - The BMW blew a head gasket, the German wife ran off with a welder, the Italian girlfriend stopped talking to me and all I had to depend on was my Italian car.

 

The LAST thing I need, is ANOTHER woman!

 

The problem with today's wanna be pro mechanics is that they were raised in an instant gratification world. They don't want to take two years of trade school to learn the theory of operation of any device on any car. Then put in a few years as an apprentice applying that knowledge in the real world.

Intead they want to connect a scan tool to find a code. Then log onto the Internet for what possibilities the code may indicate. If they can't find the information that directly applies to the specific problem the car has they "can't" repair the car.

Another scenario are mechanics who are still in the trade that should have found another calling using the internet as a crutch. They can get way too deep in a car that leaves every one involved with a head ache.

Then there is the DIY who over simplifies a repair. Tears the car apart and realizes it is not as easy was that website inferred. Then he calls a repair shop hoping to bail him out.....

 

Yes, but the problem is, the modern consumer demands the luxuries in life. There are no defroster, power steering, Onstar on your '37 Ford. The more stuff we want, the more complicated things get. I have no problems with modern computer driven cars. They are more of an aid to diagnoses than a hinderance...IF you have the manual. I can understand electronics just as good as the next EE.

The big problem is the "IF". Once you don't have access to the manual, then it's SOL and you have to trace wires with tons of wasted time.

Ace