Have you heard if it will stay with the flat plane geometry that alone will make a BIG difference in the rpm ability... and sound....If so then no reason it could not sound along the lines of a f40 or however the engineers want it to sound with exhaust note tuning.. 560 Hp sounds real good to me.. I know the Maserati uses cross plane but there is no reason Ferrari could not do a flat plane turbo.....would probably have to be twin turbo with flat plane..
I wouldn't know. I guess there are probably users here which are better connected than myself that could give you an answer. I asked if the engine will be based on the V8 seen in the QP, but haven't heard anything back about that yet.
What are some of the reliability issues with a twin turbo? Is there greater valve wear? Gasket failure? Turbo leak or wear given the high reving of Ferrari engines.
Yes, this is about as affirmative as it gets for me. From what I understand both from sources and the opinions of other users here, future V12 powerplants will remain NA, but V8's will be TT. Couldn't give you any definitive answer though.
The N/A engines already rev high and produce a lot of power. The bottom ends are already strong as a result, and as far as those components are concerned, they don't care if the power comes from N/A or turbo. Where it gets interesting is the top end (intake) which sees far more pressure than sea level air pressure. Thus, the intake gaskets under pressure need to be beefier and the piston tops may need to be shaped differently. The main issues from a driver's perspective are what do you do after a hard run, and turbo lag. On even the best systems, like the current BMW M5, there is still some lag; not much, but nothing like the razor instant sharpness of a N/A engine. Ferrari claims to have developed a way of overcoming lag. We shall see. A lot of drivers run their cars hard on back roads, then shut down their cars immediately upon finishing. This is not good for a N/A engine, and can be very bad for a turbo engine. The reason is that the engine retains thermal energy from running hard, and it's not dispersed if you just shut the car down. This results in a heat spike in various parts of the engine, not to mention the surrounding accessory components and hoses, etc. This can be alleviated somewhat by opening the bonnet, as many do, but that's mainly external to the engine. Better to let it run a few minutes to keep the coolant circulating before shutting down, unless the last few miles were easy ones. This is especially important for turbos. The turbo bearings get very hot as there is an interface with the exhaust in a turbo. That's fundamentally how turbos work. There are two impellers joined by a common shaft. One side is exposed to hot exhaust gases to spin it, and the other impeller pressurizes the intake. It is crucial to keep the bearings in-between bathed in circulating oil and coolant if so equipped. When you just shut the engine down, the oil flow stops and there is a huge heat spike at the bearings. A well-designed system helps avoid this by having an auxiliary oil/coolant circulation system that runs for a period after shut down. The driver can help this by not just shutting down immediately after a hard run. In the secondary market, it's hard if not impossible to know whether the past own observed good shutdown practices or just turned the key to off. I have always been apprehensive about buying used turbo cars as a result. One plus to turbo or supercharged engines (the latter having belt, not exhaust driven intake impellers), is superior torque (when spun up to operating pressure) and less power fall-off when operating at mountain altitudes (such as in the Sierras or in a place like Denver).
Excellent post. Certainly spot on with regards to cooling the engine. A lot of fools don't treat turbo cars properly. Taking it easy those last miles, or letting the engine idle for a few minutes so the turbo temperature spools down, is especially important when you have a turbocharged powerplant. With regards to turbo lag, I'm not the least concerned. When you have a TT system you can "solve" this rather easily by having a small and a large turbo. Complete that with clever mapping and the turbo lag becomes almost non-existant. Of course it doesn't match a shrieking and high reving NA V8 such as the 458 on instant respnse, but power delivery is still pretty much right there. For instance, I can't recall anyone I know complaining about turbo lag in the 12C or 997 Turbo, or the new Ghibli / QP.
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Great post!! Question: I notice on the new M cars they run fans for about 10 minutes after the car is shut off- is the car still circulating the coolant etc during this time, or are the fans just cooling down the exterior of the components?
Interesting. I am not disputing what you say as you seem to know your stuff but are you sure this is still relevant for modern cars? I do quite a few track days with Ferrari UK and neither Ferrari personnel nor any of the pilot tutors sitting in the cars said that's needed on modern cars. Are they just being stupid? I think the fans on a lot of cars keep running after you turn off the engine for that reason. Thanks
Ferrari has recommended a few minutes of idling after driving hard since the 250 days. From the Daytona OM: When the engine is very hot after having been used to its limit, it is recommended to let it idle for a few minutes prior to switching off. Nothing has changed since then.
I just searched in the very incomplete user manuals of the California and 458 and didn't find anything related to this.... Odd
Edmondo- The new owners manuals are more like Buick OMs than they were in the past. Very little technical information at all. Using the earlier Ferrari OMs, you could perform most of the maintenance required with the data and illustrations provided. The new OMs do not even have a maintenance schedule. The last maintenance schedules in the OMs seems to be in the 575M OM from 2005. Now they are in the warranty book. From the 2005 Ferrari 575M OM: After a racing-type drive let the engine idle for several minutes before stopping it in order to stabilise the temperature. That is 36 years after the Daytona manual was printed in 1969.
I know with my turbo diesel trucks, I never shut down immediately following a high load situation, but have always allowed the engine to cool somewhat. I believe that is mostly due to the turbo bearings need to cool with circulating oil. As far as I know, the continuing fans after shut off does not continue to circulate oil through the turbo's. So it would make sense to cool the engine before shutting down if it is turbo, while it might not be as big of a deal with na engines.
My Bentley had twin turbo w12 engine and after I shut the engine off the fans would still be blowing for several minutes on a hot day. I'm sure letting the car idle is a great idea and cannot hurt anything either.
Funny thing is, those fans do not do much except move the air around. My old Scirroco did the same thing. Water circulation in the radiator stops when you shut down the engine. On some turbocharger models, a small electric oil recirculation pump was fitted that ran after the engine was shut down to prevent coking the bearings on the turbopump. Most of those issues with coking have been solved. I used to hate turbos, but the modern ones are just about indistinguishable from naturally aspirated. Still prefer the latter, except at altitude. My house is a 5419', and NA engines definitely take a hit the supercharged cars do not. After all, the supercharger and turbocharger were developed to make aircraft engines perform better at altitude.
+1. Unless there is also a recirc pump, the continued fan op does little. There is some heat dissipation by convection, but not much. Because turbos spool up by hot gasses blowing on an impeller, no matter how small they are they won't ever be as responsive as a mechanical supercharger or N/A engine. I agree the newer designs get very close, though.
