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Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by msdesignltd, Sep 13, 2006.

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  1. PSP

    PSP Formula Junior

    Mar 31, 2001
    603
    Lake Forest, CA USA
    Full Name:
    Patrick S. Perry
    What percentage of the 7,000+ Testarossas produced ended up in the USA? Maybe half?

    Now, subtract out those that have been totaled over the last 22 years. Now we're down to 3,000, give or take. Suddenly, it doesn't seem like all that many cars.

    One other factor when comparing these to 60s era muscle cars - while it's true that there weren't many of a rare combo produced, there were hundreds of thousands of similar common models made. In 1967, Chevrolet made 602 Z-28 Camaros, but they also made 162,109 other Camaros with a V-8 engine (and 58,808 with a 6 cylinder engine) - and probably 95% of those stayed in the US

    A relatively inexpensive garden variety Camaro can be built into a Z-28 clone for much less than the cost of the real deal - sure, it wouldn't be "authentic", but it would probably be close enough for "Joe Average".

    That just isn't feasible with a TR.

    I'm not looking for these cars to rocket to astronomical values overnight, but I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that they will substantially appreciate as the generation that had the TR poster on their bedroom wall "grays".
     
  2. callchuck

    callchuck Karting

    Aug 29, 2005
    92
    The milage was in 40's the front bumper and splitter was not original along with the suspension and rear wheels.
    Clint Eastwood car- brought here from Belgium. Interior & exterior was changed to a different color. This car was the# 2 in production of Boxer's.And it was a 7 out of 10 in condition.
     
  3. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Owner Consultant

    Dec 26, 2001
    13,510
    Canada
    Full Name:
    Newman
    You car was discovered to be the 7th car built according to research done using the chassis number.
     
  4. callchuck

    callchuck Karting

    Aug 29, 2005
    92
    Thanks for the update. At the time of sale or my sale here in Atlanta the information was the #2 car. We were not aware of any changes to the production #. I am not sure what info the seller at the auction gave with the car when it was sold.
    All I know is that the dealer here in Atlanta called me and said, "would you like to here something funny"? Your Ferrari just sold for $110,000 in Carmel at the auction. I sold it for $68,000 to the dealer here and they sold it for $68,000 to a dealer in Seattle which auctioned it in Carmel for $110,000. We both were gasping for air, since the dealer in Seattle did absolutely nothing to the car. I was not laughing to much after the phone call. Seems to me I left $42,000 on the table, because everyone convinced me my car was not worth a penny more than $68,000. The dealer here said,"oh well"!
     
  5. markpeboxer

    markpeboxer Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2006
    252
    Chicago
    Full Name:
    Mark
    from FML:

    365 GT4/BB, S/N 17257. Red with black sills and black leather interior. Visually maintained, largely original, 3+ condition. Hammered sold at $112,000 plus commission of 10.00% = final price of $123,200. AM/FM, a/c, Daytona-style seats. Good original interior and recent repaint. Odometer shows 70,418 kilometers which its condition supports as realistic. The bidding stalled at $40,000 and was inched along in little bumps to the rather impressive successful bid, 12% over the high estimate. The bidding was rather typical of the Monterey atmosphere this year: restrained and conservative even though there was, in the end, plenty of money available and a willingness to spend it if challenged. Call it "tentative"?

    also re a 512BBi:
    512 BBi S/N 45441. Black with black interior. Visually maintained, largely original, 3 condition. Hammered sold at $80,000 plus commission of 10.00% = final price of $88,000. Clarion cassette, a/c. Not California smog compliant. Good repaint and original interior. A decent used low miles (10,244) car, even if it can’t be registered in California. It will run just fine in Nevada, however, and plenty of Californians maintain residence over the border. The price is fair to both the buyer and the seller.
     
  6. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 6, 2002
    72,805
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    Don't feel bad, callchuck...two things were happing there..

    You had the normal 'auction factor' combined with the "Monterrey magic" factor.......

    You didn't have that in Atlanta, that's all......and of course the new buyer hasn't showed up here, where so many knowledgable owner's observed some diminishing factors.......

    Maybe it was Mayor Eastwood buying it back in a sentimental moment!! ;)
     
  7. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 6, 2002
    72,805
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    Strange to me the FML would call that car with interior/exterior color change and a Daytona front nose "largely original"......


    I think the Heritage Certificate committee would disagree!
     
  8. callchuck

    callchuck Karting

    Aug 29, 2005
    92
    The motor in that car is tired, that is the only reason I sold it. Someone who's ability does not match their ego put some radical cams in that car along with other mods to the engine that I will not get into. Compression on that motor is 60lbs per cylinder. The valves are stuck open because of the radical cams. The timing was already advanced to the max, car ran like **** under 5000 rpm's. The dump ass that built the motor thought he was building a monster car for the track, he took the previous owner to the cleaners. When I bought the car last year I knew it had issue's but not these kind of issue's. Also, the car needed new rubber which no one makes speed rated tires for anymore.
    Good luck to the new owner. They have already spent the wad I was going to spend to bring it back to a close original. By the way, Italy has a set of cams for the car for $8500 without shipping. This is going to be a very expensive Boxer.
     
  9. GaryReed

    GaryReed F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 9, 2002
    3,061
    Seattle
    Full Name:
    Gary
    I saw your car here in Seattle at Park Place Ltd. just a few days before it was loaded on the truck to the auction in CA. A salesman that I know told me that they were going to be splitting the profit from the auction with another dealer (Atlanta?). They did spend some money on having some minor work done by a Ferrari mechanic prior to selling it.

    He did say that it ran very rough at the low end, but came on like crazy above 5K.

    At the time, he told me they had hoped it would sell in the high $80s, low $90s at best.

    Surprise!
     
  10. J.P.Sarti

    J.P.Sarti Guest

    May 23, 2005
    2,406
    A new rear lattice frame, front valence rework and other misc stuff I could have had the car fixed proper and original for under $3k.

    If this car is restored factory and can be proven to Clint Eastwood its a $200k car in 4 years or less.
     
  11. callchuck

    callchuck Karting

    Aug 29, 2005
    92
    What about rebuilding the motor and replacing the rear wheels (they were Daytona wheels) and then finding speed rated tires? That was my only reason for selling the car. And if you look back at last years threads about my car, most of the opinions from the forum thought that the Clint Eastwood History (someone put a pic on the forum with Eastwood standing next to the car from the Ferrari history book) gave it no extra value for a collector.And all of the cost to bring it to factory original condition kept it's value low. All of these factors convinced me to sell a car I wanted to keep in my collection forever! I hope I did not let a diamond in the rough go to cheap. From here it looks like around $53,000 to low.
     
  12. JAYF

    JAYF Formula 3

    May 13, 2006
    1,140
    Westchester, NY
    Full Name:
    Jay
    Once again more opinions/dreams. 200k-get real!
     
  13. Steve B

    Steve B Formula Junior

    Dec 23, 2003
    521
    Naperville
    Full Name:
    Steven L. Biagini
    In the 1989 - 1991 time frame, Boxers were selling for 200K +.
     
  14. RP

    RP F1 World Champ

    Feb 9, 2005
    17,667
    Bocahuahua, Florxico
    Full Name:
    Tone Def

    I think that is real.
     
  15. coachi

    coachi Formula 3

    May 1, 2002
    2,108
    SC USA
    I actually had a solid offer to sell my 1983 Boxer for 275,000. I turned it down of course...I loved and still love that car. Prices may never go there again, but who cares. it is like someone telling you that you house is worth 5 times what you paid for it. If you sell it, where will you live?
     
  16. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    May 27, 2004
    11,715
    CT
    Full Name:
    Sean
    I guess we can say that the boxer is starting to become appreciated by "collectors" not just cognocenti. After all a boxer is like a daytone that can handle and stop. Or you could say its a can am car for the road, something not done before or since.
     
  17. steveirl

    steveirl Formula 3

    Dec 29, 2003
    1,156
    ireland
    Full Name:
    steve
    It has happened before. My current Boxer, a 78 512BB sold was sold in 1991 in the UK for 190000 sterling pounds. In At 1991 exchange rates that would have been over $350000US
    Steve
     
  18. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    May 27, 2004
    11,715
    CT
    Full Name:
    Sean
    Steve, since you have current experiemce with both, what are the differences between a bbi and a bb.
     
  19. Steve B

    Steve B Formula Junior

    Dec 23, 2003
    521
    Naperville
    Full Name:
    Steven L. Biagini
    That is exactly the dilemma. If my Boxer appreciates substantially in value I could not sell it because I would just have to buy another!!!
     
  20. steveirl

    steveirl Formula 3

    Dec 29, 2003
    1,156
    ireland
    Full Name:
    steve
    Experience in relation to what Sean? ownership, market values?
    Steve
     
  21. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Owner Consultant

    Dec 26, 2001
    13,510
    Canada
    Full Name:
    Newman
    sounds like sour grapes to me
     
  22. JAYF

    JAYF Formula 3

    May 13, 2006
    1,140
    Westchester, NY
    Full Name:
    Jay
    Read carefully folks, my response was to the "Clint Eastwood Special", not boxers in genreral.
     
  23. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Owner Consultant

    Dec 26, 2001
    13,510
    Canada
    Full Name:
    Newman
    I read carefully where you said only a fool would take a boxer over a TR. You are preaching to the wrong crowd as good as TR is. So you are'nt riding the boxer wave and wish you were, thats ok, like you said your time will come. :)
     
  24. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,563
    Lakeland FL
    Full Name:
    Shamile
    Dear Ferraristi,

    Ok, I just had to write. While I like the boxer...those classic Ferrari lines, I'm a TR guy through and through. I grew up on Miami Vice and for me, nothing is more 80' iconic than a TR.....that wild "over the top"...."greed is good" ...extravagant styling. A TR has it's place in history and nothing will change this.

    For me a TR is the "keeper" Ferrari. Nothing else really turns my crank. Yes, I think you're all correct that the TR values pale in comparison to the Boxer, but it's not "better" ( newer technology) than a TR. Remember, Enzo was personally involved in the TR's development(styling etc) . Remember that old Goodyear commercial? " Why does the Ferrari Testarossa have goodyear eagles?....because Mr. Ferrari says so". ( As he exits the TR with a small smile on his face)

    What is common for both is the high mileage bug-a-boo for all Ferraris. I really don't car. I drive my 91 TR as a daily driver and put 7000 miles a year on it. Yes the maintenace is really expensive...but isn't it also for a Boxer?

    Remember....whats old is new again. When the TR came out, I wonder how many boxers were overfilling the F dealers on trade ins. Now look, you can't even find premium BB's.

    How many 360's do you see now? Hmmm....a TR's production #'s don't seem so bad now :) I know, I know, not as rare as a boxer.

    I just think this TR bashing is wrong. They're really great cars and have their place in history. A boxer is also a great car and IS more timeless as it was never a "fashion statement".

    I personally will take a TR anyday over a boxer because that's just me. Please don't assume we all want to drive boxers but can't afford to.


    Shamile


    Freeze...Miami Vice !
     
  25. Steve B

    Steve B Formula Junior

    Dec 23, 2003
    521
    Naperville
    Full Name:
    Steven L. Biagini
    I am not bashing the TR. However, in my opinion, compared to the Boxer it is lacking in excitement. I have owned, in order, a 1989 TR, a 512 BBi and my current 365 BB. Each car was a step down the refinement scale and a step up the excitement scale. By the way, Boxers were never filling the Ferrari dealer lots. They were never sold by Ferrari in the USA and had to be imported on a "gray-market" basis. They have always been rare, at least in the USA. As to association with the 1980s and Miami Vice, well, that's a matter of personal taste. I believe that white Zinfandel was really popular back then too.
     

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