Nice 348 Challenge.

Really nice car going by the write up. Looks pretty original.

A Factory Race Car That Never Raced? Ferrari 348 Challenge | CURATED

 

Looks lovely, but without the Challenge Kit installed it was never race-ready, and was never a "race car", but rather a very late-production 348 tb with a few subtle distinguishing features. Presumably that's why it remains so nice.

 

Nice stock car for sure

Like Ira states it only has a few trinkets no real challenge stuff.

 

I agree.

 

Beautiful. If it is indeed a factory built Challenge car it's certainly a rare bird. The fact that it was never raced makes it all the more desirable to some of us (and I say that as a race car guy). The Challenge series isn't exactly like LeMans-- it's an amateur series, so you're giving up very little "history" in exchange for a much more pristine car. In the old days I'd be looking for exactly that for development as a track car, but with values on the rise it'd be better to maintain it as an unmolested example. In any case, I love it! Thanks for posting, Nick.

 

If the car were actually equipped with the Challenge kit and remained unraced I might see your point, but what you're "giving up" here is the fact that it's not a racecar at all. It appears to lack the wheels. cage, seats, etc., etc. that would've made it a real Challenge car, and presumably still has all of its heavy and numbing street equipment.
A nice car, to be sure, but really just a late-production 348tb, as opposed to a Challenge car.
Having driven street 348s and owned a couple of 348 CH race cars, I can assure you that it's comparing apples and orangutans!

 

LOL yeah tell me about it. I need a kidney belt driving mine on the street. Car feels like a go cart on rails. Simply amazing feel.

 

What "heavy and numbing street equipment" was removed for the Challenge Series? As I understood it, those cars were raced pretty much as delivered, with the exception of the installation of safety equipment. In fact, I thought they were originally raced on stock wheels, so if that recollection is correct the only street equipment I can think of that might have been removed is the exhaust and A/C (plus lighter chairs)-- weight that would have been offset by the cage and fire system. So what were the differences between the street cars and the Challenge Series cars? Way back when I remember beating a longtime Challenge driver in his Challenge car, driving a friend's street TS that was set up to Challenge specs (and in fact posting a time that would have put me #3 on the grid at that years Challenge race), in a stock car with nothing more than race tires/brakes and a setup change, so there can't have been that much difference between the street and Challenge cars.

I'm not sure I've ever driven, or even ridden in, a Challenge car in original specification. The ones I've experienced were much further developed for later (non-factory) race series, and were therefore much better evolved and more dynamic than the original Challenge Series cars, but they are obviously no longer period-correct, and therefore perhaps lose value as historic Ferraris. However, I will certainly agree that a Challenge car that has been further evolved with more modern equipment is an absolutely sublime track car-- in fact, probably my favorite production based track car ever (I prefer finesse over power).

In any case, I don't understand the objections to this particular car, *assuming* it is a factory Challenge car. If it is indeed one of the original 32 but it doesn't come with the race kit that's a serious ding, but it's not like the car is being miscast as a race car when it's actually a street car. To me, the awesome thing about the 348 Challenge series is that it was contested using street cars with added safety gear, which is the epitome of Gentleman's Racing AFAIC. I absolutely love the fact that 348 Challenge cars can be registered for street use-- that makes it (and the '95 355CH) the last of the hallowed Ferraris that can be both raced and street driven.

But as a long-time race car builder, I love the idea of being able to buy an unmolested example such as would have been available "back in the day" ( I hate that phrase), rather than having to take a well-used example and trying to un-do all of the damage and questionable mods that it might have suffered over the years. Sure, a documented un-pranged Challenge car in original configuration, but with a race history, is probably "more desirable" than this car, but **IF** this is one of the 32 I'd take it over a converted street car in a heartbeat-- not because of its capabilities, but because it would represent a pristine example of a *very* rare factory model.

 

Not to mention ear plugs!

 

To each his own, I suppose. And I don't entirely disagree with you- but I do suspect (having never weighed comparable examples) that deleting exhaust, heavy seats, a/c, and, in most (but not all cases) carpets, etc., more than offsets the weight of the cage and little OMP fire bottle.
As for driving dynamics, the larger and wider Speedline wheels (mandatory after the first year on stock wheels) and solid suspension bushings that are part of the Challenge kit make a big difference.
I agree that there aren't many 348CHs in their original spec. My first one was in "as raced" condition during my ownership, and the current one (#26 of 32) is exactly as raced except for R-compound tires (vs. the original Pirelli D3 compound slicks) and larger Brembo F-40 brakes, so they're rare but do exist. It has had one of the front fenders and the rear bumper cover replaced, but was never badly crashed- that, and the fact that it's a "factory" Challenge car (and the only one made in Grigio Met.- very pretty IMHO), is why I bought it.

 

now listed in the classifieds:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/ferraris/520427-1994-ferrari-348-challenge-never-converted-raced.html

 

If it had a serious race history it may be worth the asking price ($149K). Seller is a little optimistic. Street legal 355C with major race history are selling is that ballpark.

 

The car was initially listed here by a previous owner for $55k on Super Bowl Sunday 2016. I had two phone conversations with him. He was in a box at the Super Bowl and a Broncos fan...

This previous owner in CA had a flood of calls and offers so decided to pull the car off the market after 3 days - for a week or two after understanding that he had undervalued his car. He had many people wanting to purchase it. The forum new exactly what the car was and that it had been undervalued. Especially after receiving cell phone photos from behind the seats. Trying to tie down the seller to get a deal done was was the difficult piece to this puzzle. So kudos to the new owner for getting it done.

The CA seller wanted a car with power steering and did not like the 348 manual setup... I have never heard that one before. He was interested in F355's or 430's moving forward. He talked to the local authorized dealer and then came back and was looking for $70k as the magic number for a final sale.

Car was unveiled in the challenge section with an excited owner a couple weeks ago.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/challenge-gt-cars/518315-1994-ferrari-348-challenge-098818-never-raced-converted.html

New Seller is now a dealer / sponsor - so Good luck to John and his new business and support at ferrarichat. I'm sure he will continue to find interesting cars to bring to market. He has already done so with another interesting 348 challenge and F355 challenge - both with racing history.

All dealers take the risks and reap the rewards based on what the market will bear. All challenge cars are hot. I would expect this car to do well in the future - although I agree with Ira and would value a car with the full kit and racing history as the absolute top value - I know some will disagree - there is room on both sides of that aisle.

Robb

 

Thanks for the update/context, Robb. I remember the ad in question now that you mention it, although at the time I'd dismissed it as a scam based on price alone.

Agree that the lack of the full Challenge kit dings this car's value pretty hard, but as far as I'm concerned the lack of a race history is a plus instead of a minus. Speaking as a car builder, I try to avoid cars with heavy race histories because they've almost always been patched with expediency being a far bigger priority than making a proper repair. I can see why investors might look for a race history, but let's face it-- it's not like these cars were campaigned by big name pros in notable races, they're club race cars.

Seems to me this car is very fully valued, to be kind, considering the iffiness of today's market. Here's hoping it finds a loving home though. Looks to be a highly desirable car and no doubt even the lofty asking price will seem cheap one of these days.

 

Good points for sure. I can understand the plus of having a car that is not raced to gain less wear on the exterior body or lack of incidents (rubbing is racing) but the history and stories gained seem priceless to me - as is, an authentic number plate and sponsor logos that would be missing on an unraced car.

Robb

 

I attended some of the Challenge races back then. Those cars weren't just raced-- they were abused. Tons of twisted sheet metal in the garages at the end of every day. Makes for great stories if it was Phil Hill at LeMans, less so if it was Billy-Ray at Pocono.

But I certainly take your point and I'm envious of anyone who owns *any* street legal Challenge car, whether it was beat to heck and rebuilt or always a garage queen.

 

Here is the original for sale Ad listing on F-chat:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/ferraris/513898-1994-ferrari-348-tb-challenge-package.html

 

Actually that is not the original for sale ad --- the original for sale ad was posted on Super Bowl Sunday for a price of 52.5k, but that ad was removed within one day!