Nice feature - Pete's 348 | FerrariChat

Nice feature - Pete's 348

Discussion in '348/355' started by Rs200tez, Jun 15, 2013.

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  1. Rs200tez

    Rs200tez Karting

    Oct 5, 2011
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    James
    I had the latest issue of Ferrari Owners Club magazine come through the door - I just wanted to say what a great write up it is and how beautiful Pete's 348 looks, especially the one on page 55. Stirs the soul.....well it does mine.
     
  2. Nosevi

    Nosevi Formula 3

    Jul 8, 2011
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    Thanks mate :)

    Just took the opportunity to share some of what I've researched about the history of the 348 with our fellow owners of other Tipos as well as a few other bits and bobs. So much rubbish has been written about the car that many don't really understand the significance of the 348 or why it was so important to Ferrari moving forwards - it really does link the old raw cars with the new high performance, race-derived, road going V8s.

    There was a very minor edit in there that I spotted, I was a little more direct about the car being excluded from the Classic race series over here in the UK, but I'll forgive them that. I have asked the question though - why can't a 348 compete, the cut off date is the car needs to have been in production prior to 1990.

    One interesting fact that I came across that I couldn't fit in (and didn't really want to) involves other things that went on at the time at Maranello. On coming into Ferrari LdM obviously slated the 348, yep we all know that. What is interesting to note is that in order to 'fix' the car they made some relatively minor changes to it then continued to build the car for 4 years (in the case of the Spider). They then based the mighty 355 almost entirely on the 348. What happened to the other cars? Well the Mondi T received similar tweaks to the 348 and for similar reasons, although clearly it wasn't manufactured for so long afterwards. The Testarossa? It's an older car and I'm a fan but production was ceased immediately. In order to 'fix' what was 'wrong' they made the following tweaks in order to release the 512TR(taken from another Fchatter's post, hope he doesn't mind):


    1. Bore and stroke of 82mm by 78mm, 4942 cc capacity (unchanged);
    2. HP increased from 380hp SAE to 421, with most of the increase coming from a redesign of the intake manifolds, a repositioning of the injectors, and a recalibration of the injectors, and a recalibration of the engine management system, the later controlling the integrated electronic fuel injection system;
    3. Torque increased from 354lb ft to 360;
    4. 0-60mph, 5.7 sec to 4.8;
    5. Top speed- 180mph to 192;
    6. New cylinder liner manufactured in aluminum with Nikasil coating;
    7. New pistons due to larger intake valves;
    8. Increase in compression ratio (10.1 to1)
    9. Modified cylinder head gaskets due to a higher compression ratio and a different cylinder head coolant circulation layout;
    10. Reinforced camshafts of a new profile;
    11. Valve tappets with a new design bucket and springs;
    12. New intake valves of a larger diameter;
    13. Separate air boxes with filters, with a dynamic air intake;
    14. Longer and straighter air intake manifolds;
    15. Integrated electronic fuel injection system and ignition (Bosch Motronic 2.7) with self-diagnostic capabilities, and with ECU located in the cockpit;
    16. Double independent submergible fuel pumps;
    17. Exhaust manifolds with new layout;
    18. Metallic type pre-catalyst converters;
    19. Exhaust muffler with resonators and new heat shields;
    20. Aluminum oil radiator with U circulation and without fan, allowing for better permeability; aluminum tubing;
    21. Dual copper water radiators with U circulation in series and new aluminum tubing;
    22. Coolant expansion tank located between intake manifolds;
    23. More powerful alternator;
    24. Secondary air pump with new air distribution pattern.

    Chassis- Up front, the chassis frame was strengthened around specific points; for example, the steering rack mounts and the front suspension mounts. Highly stressed frame pieces are made of special chromium-molybdenum steel. At the rear, the old engine sub frame has been done away with. To gain a noticeable increase in stiffness, the rear frame was made an integral part of the entire chassis. The engine is now lifted out from above. Around the passenger compartment, the steel platform, rear bench, front and rear firewalls, and pillars are all welded directly to the tubes of the chassis. End result is that chassis flex has been reduced by 25% and torsional rigidity has been increased by 12.5%. Other chassis specifics as noted by Ferrari:
    1. Weight reduction of 40kg/88lbs;
    2. Lower center of gravity;
    3. Reduction of unsprung weight;
    4. Steering points in aluminum alloy;
    5. New steering column shaft design;
    6. New steering rack with longer arms and more direct ratios;
    7. New steering moment offset;
    8. Bilstein gas shock absorbers with aluminum body and adjustable plate;
    9. New shock absorber settings;
    10. Lighter weight springs.

    Gearbox and Differential
    1. Limited slip differential (40%) with reduced axial thrust to increase reliability;
    2. New transfer gear ratio;
    3. Strengthened transfer gears;
    4. New synchronizer pre-loading springs;
    5. Gear shift lever housing with sliding ball bearings;
    6. New selector and modified gear shift lever inclination;
    7. New single plate clutch with reduced inertia and asbestos free clutch linings;
    8. Entire gearbox and transmission strengthened throughout.

    Brakes
    1. Larger front discs, 315mm x 32mm, with cross drilled braking surface;
    2. Larger rear discs, 310 mm x 28mm, with cross drilled braking surface;
    3. Aluminum calipers with larger pistons: front 44/40mm; rear: 40/36mm;
    4. New ducts for brake cooling;
    5. New brake proportioning valve;
    6. Brake pedal ratio is more direct;
    7. Redesigned hand brake with reduced application effort.

    Wheels and Tires
    1. Front wheels increased from 16” to 8” x 18” with 235/40 ZR 18 tires;
    2. Rear wheels increased from 16” to 10.5” x 18” with 295/35 ZR 18 tires.

    Styling Changes
    1. New trapezoidal shaped air intake scoops on front with prancing horse;
    2. Body colored front spoiler;
    3. New profile to the C pillar fins in the rear sections with elimination of vents in sail panels;
    4. Integral air intake slots added to the engine cover;
    5. Rear lights are now dual colored and a redesign of the underbumper to change aesthetics of the exhaust system and exhaust outlets.
    6. Wheels redesigned;
    7. Interior restyled with elimination of center console and repositioning of the corresponding instruments under the central part of the dashboard.
    8. Door panels and armrests have been changed.

    In my book the Testarossa will always be iconic, just the way I see the car, but you never actually hear this angle - the 348 was tweaked a tad, the Testarossa was almost entirely rebuilt. Like LdM or not, he didn't mess around. If he had truly thought the 348 was that bad he would have changed it a darn sight more than he did.
     
  3. Kaivball

    Kaivball Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2007
    35,997
    Kalifornia
    That's an interesting angle.

    Kai
     
  4. Nosevi

    Nosevi Formula 3

    Jul 8, 2011
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    Don't misunderstand me at all Kai, I'm a huge Testarossa fan - iconic, striking, sound great. But that is what actually happened. The 348 got the bad press but at the end of the day, they went on building it with only minor adjustments, tweaks if you like. The original Testarossa was totally transformed in order to release the 512TR.
     
  5. Nosevi

    Nosevi Formula 3

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    Not sure if I'm allowed to post scans of the article but just found the text so guess I can post that in case it's of interest. Most will know a lot of the info anyway but the odd bit may be new. It wasn't aimed at Fchatters though and many owners that don't frequent the forums may not have known most of it .............




    The Changing Fortunes of the Ferrari 348

    Having lusted after a Ferrari ever since my father took me to a dealership at about the age of 7, I was finally in a position to make that dream a reality a couple of years ago. Although Enzo Ferrari famously once said “A Ferrari is a 12 cylinder car!” for me the mid engine V8s have always been my personal favourites and realistically I was looking at cars from the 308 up to the 355. As a teenager in the ‘80s when the Ferrari bug really first bit, I always liked the look of the ‘cheese graters’ found on the Testarossa and 348 and as I set out to find my car, the 348 was very much up towards the top of my list. As well as doing a fair amount of reading on each model I spoke to numerous Specialists who were more than happy to help an enthusiastic potential owner. One thing that came up time and again though was to avoid the 348 in favour of another model – sometimes a 328, sometimes a 355, but the theme was fairly consistent. A couple of the Specialists even told me that they tended to actively avoid the model in favour of others. This came as a bit of a blow as, if I was honest, having had a poster of one on my wall as a youth my heart had always been set on a 348 TS. Even though I valued the opinions I was being given I decided to look at all the models on my list.

    It was at this point that I found a 348 that fit the bill regarding what I was looking for in this particular model - a later model TS in Rosso with cream leather, so I went for a test drive. I was hooked! What had been described to me as “iffy handling” felt alive, the feedback through the wheel was like nothing I had driven before. The whole car felt like it had a character found more in the older models yet with a bit of performance to back it up. And the sound was just sensational. Although I had listened to a lot of well meaning criticism of the model in my ‘research’ I realised that, for me, the 348 was the perfect blend of ‘old school’ Ferrari together with slightly more up to date performance that I was looking for. After an extensive search I found my car and haven’t regretted my decision for a moment.

    So why did I constantly find criticism of the 348 during my search? Why was the model looked at by many as inferior to its immediate siblings? To answer that question you have to look a little at the history of the car. On its release the Ferrari 348 was hugely popular; it was extremely well received at Frankfurt when it was launched and at one stage there was a 5 year waiting list in the States with only slightly shorter order times over in the UK. In launching the 348, Ferrari had bought many of the features of its race-bred cars to the V8 line including a longitudinal mounted engine with dry sump lubrication. In fact the whole design of the chassis was a departure from the traditional construction used in the 328 and before. The result was a car that could lap Ferrari’s test track, Fiorano, some 7 seconds quicker than its immediate predecessor. This is by far the largest step forward in on-track performance of either the V8 or the V12 Ferrari model lines to date and, to give it perspective, is practically the same as the recorded time difference between a road going 355 F1 and a 458 Italia. Indeed even today in one of our own current race series - The Pirelli Ferrari Formula Classic - while the regulations have for some years stated that “Cars must be Ferrari production tipos built prior to 1990” which would include the 348 having been in production in 1989, they go on to exclude the 348 by adding “(ie before the tipo 348)” The regulations do however allow the 348’s sister car, the Mondial T to compete although it was built at the same time as the 348, has the same engine and in fact uses a more sophisticated suspension system. However, while the Mondial T is much closer to the other cars competing in terms of performance, the 348 is not, particularly when race prepared. I assume the exclusion is in order to ensure a more balanced field. Overall, the introduction of the 348 was clearly a big step up for a purely road going V8 and lead to the introduction of the 348 Challenge Series, allowing owners to experience this performance in a competitive environment. The motoring press initially sang the praises of Ferrari’s new ‘baby supercar’.

    And then that all seemed to change. While many say that the change can be linked with the release of the Honda NSX, that is not strictly speaking true. The NSX was in fact released to the world first, in February of ’89 in Chicago while the 348 was not launched until September of that year, yet the change in the way the press at the time saw the 348 did not occur until slightly later. One of the factors in the way in which the model was seen can almost certainly be attributed to comments made by the incoming Ferrari Chairman – Luca di Montezemolo. Famously, in a meeting with his engineers in 1991, when he was setting out why things at Maranello had to change, one of his engineers held up the 348 as an example of why, the road car division at least, was in fact in good shape. Luca told the assembled staff how wrong they were by recounting a story of how he was embarrassed by a driver of a Golf GTI in an impromptu traffic light drag race, adding words roughly meaning “This, to me, is not a Ferrari!” We know about this story because Luca told it to the press on numerous occasions, often causing a certain amount of annoyance to current 348 owners. For me it causes more amusement than annoyance given that the fastest Golf GTI at the time had a 0-60 time some 3 seconds slower than a 348 and would cross the quarter mile mark at least 30 car lengths back in a fair fight. It would be akin to my 348 blowing away a 458 Italia in a drag race. Still, no matter how absurd the story may seem, the damage was done. The idea that your average hot hatch was just as fast as some chap’s Ferrari, and that even Ferrari themselves admitted this, was hugely popular with certain members of the public and the press lapped it up. The story has been repeated time and time again ever since.

    Many members of the motoring press who were not fans of Ferrari in general now had a target, and even journalists who had previously sang the praises of the 348 started to find problems with the car. In the UK even our own Jeremy Clarkson, on first driving the 348 noted, “If the car had been good, or even very good, that would have been enough. The fact that it was a Ferrari would have swung the vote. But the car is, in fact, a sensation.” He also said that it made a laughing stock out of a Honda NSX, that he would prefer to own one to a Lamborghini Diablo and that comparing the 348 to a BMW 850i was “like watching one of those nature programmes when a whale eats a plankton.” Some years later he used the 348 as an example of the inadequacies of many Ferraris, recalling how he had thought the handling felt as if the tyres were made of wood. He was by no means alone in his marked change of opinion; selective amnesia throughout the popular motoring press seems to have been rife. Many orders were cancelled, including my car’s as it happens, and she sat in a showroom for months with no owner. Whether as a direct result of Luca’s comments or not, the reputation of the 348 was changed almost overnight. The 348 was seen by many as an inferior Ferrari, often without having ever driven an example. I believe this largely accounts for the formation of what is affectionately called ‘The 348 Brotherhood’. To be in ‘The Brotherhood’ you need to be the owner of, or have previously owned, a Ferrari 348. Members from the UK, the States, across Europe and the Far East are in touch through many of the Ferrari based forums. It is a fairly close knit group within the wider Ferrari owning family and I’m sure it is all the closer because of the ‘flak’ that has come the way of their pride and joys over the years.

    And yet it does not seem like this is entirely the end of the story for the 348. It would appear that slowly the way in which this particular model is being viewed is changing and over the last year or so there have been several articles in the motoring press showing the 348 in a light that it hasn’t been seen in for some time. Classic Cars rounded off an article comparing the 348 to the much praised 355 by saying,

    “But I bet you’d be enthralled by the distinctively analogue 348tb. It is more demanding with greater intensity. It also requires a longer and gentler learning curve, a defter touch and more patience. Arguably the beguiling 348 makes more sense as a classic perspective than a contemporary one. Be it an occasional treat or potent trackday tool, it is an antidote to disconnected modern motoring.
    It won’t be to everyone’s taste, but for those who prefer something stronger than a mug of cocoa, it really does hit the spot.”

    While Henry Catchpole of Evo Magazine, having openly admitted the 348 was the car he was least looking forward to driving in a comparison of the 308, 348, 355, 360, 430 and 458 simply writes,

    “There are similarities and differences from first to last but each has its own distinct personality and you could find multiple perfectly rational and perfectly irrational reasons for being excited by any one of them. For example, my highlight was probably the 348’s steering, and that’s not something I’d expected at the beginning of the day.”

    It is not only the British motoring press who seem to be changing their opinion of the 348. Across in the States it would seem that this change in the way in which the model is perceived is noticeable as well. A few months ago Exotic Car Resource (ECR) named their ‘Car of the Year’. Every year the staff at ECR decide the finalists from the best cars they have test driven over the year and the public then vote. The finalists were the Aston Martin Vantage, Lamborghini Aventador, Lamborghini Gallardo, Porsche 911, Mercedes SLS AMG, Hennessey Cadillac, Ferrari 458 – all the most recent variants of each....... and the eighth finalist was the Ferrari 348. At the end of the voting it was quite literally a landslide for the older Ferrari, gaining about 40% of the overall vote with its closest rival gaining less than half of that. The ECR test driver who drove the 348 actually tested it with the stated aim of ‘exposing’ how weak it was to the owner, a friend of his. By the end of the article he had had a slight change of heart and said how angry he was that he had believed what he had previously been told about the model. He described it as a “magnificent” car and said the steering feel was, “by far the best I have ever felt in any car I have ever driven.”

    So it would definitely seem that, slowly, the perception of the 348 is changing. What was seen by many as shortcomings in the car such as the ‘iffy’ handling that I was warned about, is now being seen more as a race-bred, almost ‘live-wire’ personality that needs to be understood, respected and for those with a bit of skill, perhaps even tamed. Those who know the 348 best have long seen the car for what it truly is. In 1993 the Michelotto performance tuning house in Italy prepared several 348s for the Italian GT Championship where they quite literally blew the competition away, posting first in class in 8 out of 11 races and relegating the Porsches to a distant second. They repeated this success in 1994 by recording 9 firsts all of which prompted Michelotto to further develop several 348s, two of which were entered in Le Mans that year. Later, in 2000, in developing the Ferrari Enzo, it was three modified 348s, referred to as M1, M2 and M3, that were used by Ferrari as test ‘mules’ to help create what became one of the world’s greatest Supercars.

    That the model is finally being seen in a different light by others is perhaps no real surprise, after all there is a very good reason that it also retains some of the soul of the earlier cars. As well as being the last new car commissioned by Enzo Ferrari (although he didn’t live to see its launch) it was also the last Ferrari to bear the name of Leonado Fioravanti as its designer. For those unfamiliar with this great man’s work he gave us the Daytona, Berlinetta Boxer, 246 Dino, 308 GTB, 288 GTO and F40. The last combination of Enzo’s vision of a sports car and Leonado’s designing prowess was the Ferrari 348 so perhaps the model’s raw, uncompromising feel when driven hard, together with its stunning looks, should come as no real surprise. Perhaps it’s just taken some longer than others to fully understand it.

    I had a wry smile to myself when I saw an advert not so long ago from one of the Specialists who originally told me they avoided the 348 and implied I should do likewise. It merely said “Wanted - Ferrari 348, to replace one we’ve recently sold.” How times change.
     
  6. Rs200tez

    Rs200tez Karting

    Oct 5, 2011
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    I agree on the Testarossa, absolutely the icon of the time for me.... I had the lucky opportunity to have a ride in one when I was 15. I can remember every second even today. Never knew how much work went into the 512tr over and above the Testarossa though... It certainly makes the changes on the 348 seem minuscule...
     
  7. Nosevi

    Nosevi Formula 3

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    Does a tad, although as I said, the Testarossa was a much older car - in reality it was a rebodied Boxer. Still, all you ever hear about is how they changed the 348 or how LdM hated it. In reality the Car that really saw the most change as LdM came in was the Testarossa, and that's by a country mile.

    Anyway, glad you enjoyed the article :)
     
  8. Rs200tez

    Rs200tez Karting

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    I think the reality is, I've owned and driven many many sports and supercars, from Lotus, TVR, Porsche and plenty of other Ferrari's. Mine is a 92 348 so well before the tweaks and the drive is simply amazing. Blows away everything I've owned before in terms of the tingle factor and feels sublime in the bends and more than quick enough on the straight bits. I have had enough experience across many marques to make my own mind up - its flippin awesome. End of.
     
  9. Nosevi

    Nosevi Formula 3

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    +1 :)

    A sports car is all about what it does for you - the experience.
     
  10. Räserperra

    Räserperra Karting

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    Well spoken, Nosevi!
     
  11. Dazzling

    Dazzling Formula 3

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    Well done Pete and not to be picky....but ya coulda mentioned the ultimate 348 as the GTC :cool:
     
  12. Nosevi

    Nosevi Formula 3

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    #12 Nosevi, Jun 18, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2013
    Couldn't fit everything in :) The Michelotto cars that competed in the GT championship were in fact designated 348 CSIA-GT rather than Michelotto GTCs as some call them and started life as standard TBs. The Le Mans cars (designated 348 GTC-LM) were based on them rather than what we know and love as the GTC, if I was being picky ;)
     
  13. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

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    If we're being honest, the 355 was really just a (heavily) modified 348. The differences were even larger than those from the TR to 512TR, especially engine wise, but that may be why it took another 2 years. It would be consistent with LdM's view if he thought the 348 needed more major revision than the TR did and therefore needed an extra couple of years, especially if they knew the platform needed to last longer as it wasn't going to be replaced like the TR was and therefore had to accomodate airbags, meet more stringent crash requirements etc. If they knew the TR was ending in '95 while the 355 had to last until '99, they had to spend more time making sure the 355 was compliant with emissions and crash standards that were coming up, hence the 2 years more of development. The design progression is interesting TR to 348 to 512TR to 355 to 512M, though I think they went too far with the 512M.

    Good article.
     
  14. Nosevi

    Nosevi Formula 3

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    Thanks Pete.

    I think you're right and what you say goes both ways. Firstly, given 3 years, when they finally developed the 355 to all intents and purposes they stuck with a modification of the 348 - couldn't have been that bad :) Also I guess the point I was trying to make was that the changes to the 348 in '91 when Luca came in were actually fairly small. Given the changes that were made to the Testarossa you could ask why they didn't go much, much further.

    Having read about the exchange which is always talked about, I truly think Luca was just making a point. His engineers were really proud of the 348 and one of them held it up as an example to the new boss that they were doing ok. Luca slated it to make the point that ok wasn't good enough. But when push came to shove they didn't massively change the car. Power Steering, electronic dampers etc would have been easy to put on - they're on the Mondial T, but all they really did was a few tweaks.

    The thing is, a lot of the things that made the 348 such a big step forward for Ferrari have been buried behind all that nonsense. How it marked Ferraris return to the GT2 scene, how it totally dominated at a time when the F40 was doing the same in the GT1 class. Who designed the car - what kind of pedigree it actually has. I just thought it was worth jotting some of it down. The article was actually in our national Ferrari Owners' Club magazine, have already had a few emails from owners of other models admitting they had no idea what the 348 was all about, just heard all the negative stuff.
     
  15. EDVTEC

    EDVTEC Karting

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    Nosevi, all the words you wrote are just perfect!
     
  16. Nosevi

    Nosevi Formula 3

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    Thanks Eduardo :)
     
  17. Ingenere

    Ingenere F1 Veteran
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    I owned one of the fist 348's produced for over 20 years, that is now owned by another Fchatter (Chucabra). I remember how the press loved it. I remember the wait lists as well as the premiums asked.

    It was (and is) a brilliant car, that rewards skill and treats punters with contempt. Those aren't vices in my mind, they are plusses, and the way Enzo would have wanted it.

    During the course of my time with 82589, we did hillclimbs, track days, grocery runs and vacations and it always did what was asked of her in wonderful fashion. On track, the 348 taught me how to be a smoother, better driver. In order to get the best out of her, she needed to be felt and understood. Not manhandled..... but definitely not given the chance to slap ME around!

    82589 taught me how to adapt my driving style and improve my fundamentals. As time goes on the 348's true character will be appreciated for the special car that bridged the past to the present.

    During the time that I had 82589, there were 308s, TR's, Mondial t's and an F40..... but the 348 always stayed. If I had it to do again, I think the F40 should have stayed longer! :) But the 348 is a truly wonderful, inspiring Ferrari, and I always believed LdM was either (A) just trying to exert his authority or (B) couldn't drive....... or a combination of the 2!
     
  18. Nosevi

    Nosevi Formula 3

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    Dino, great to hear from an owner who really appreciated his Ferraris and saw the 348 for what it truly is. Could I just ask when your 348 was built and when it was delivered? Just following up on something that I'm discussing with our Ferrari Owners' Club over here in the UK.
     
  19. Dazzling

    Dazzling Formula 3

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    #19 Dazzling, Jun 22, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2013
    Just to make sure we aren't being picky...TB's or GTB's? :p All GTC's were based on the GTB :)
     
  20. Nosevi

    Nosevi Formula 3

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    The Michelotto CSIA-GTs started life as TBs. I believe the Le Mans cars were the same. All were aquired by Michelotto prior to the release of the GTB. The changes that were made from the later TB to make it a GTB wouldn't have made any difference anyway - the Le Mans cars had different suspension and the top of the engine was redesigned anyway. Anyway, maters not a jot but when I said TB, that's what I meant. Factory GTC, totally different to the Michelotto cars were, as you say, based on the GTB, Michelloto got their cars from Ferrari in '92 though.
     
  21. Nosevi

    Nosevi Formula 3

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    #21 Nosevi, Jun 23, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2013
    Daz, very quickly, you sure we're not talking cross purposes here. The cars I spoke about in the article were aquired by Michelotto in '92 and redesignated 348 CSIA-GTs by Michelotto, they started life as TBs. They raced in the Italian GT series in '93 and '94. Michelotto also converted some other cars to 'race spec' for private customers in '94 I think it was, these were I think the Michelotto GTCs you're speaking about and could well have been GTBs, they're just not the cars I spoke about in the article.

    And everyone knows the 'Daddy' of the factory cars is the GTC. Know an owner just round the corner from me - great cars :)

    Edit: Tiny bit of info from Michelotto site http://michelottoautomobili.it/english/pagine/PAG-Storia.html
    Just out of interest will check the chasis numbers on the LeMans cars if you like....
     
  22. Nosevi

    Nosevi Formula 3

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    Looking at the chassis numbers of the 3 Le mans cars, the Simpson Racing one was a TB, looks like the 2 Michelotto cars were early GTBs. Think I'm right in saying Michelotto made 11 Le Mans spec cars but only 2 ever actually featured in Le Mans. It's a while since I went through it all though so would have to check.
     
  23. Dazzling

    Dazzling Formula 3

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    Officially the view is that there were 11 Michelotto GTC's and 2 GTC LM's www.348gtc.com ...be great if you can point me in another direction :)
     
  24. Nosevi

    Nosevi Formula 3

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    Full Name:
    Pete
    Daz, not sure we're disagreeing as much as you think, my friend. The original cars built by Michelotto for the Italian GT championship just weren't called GTCs, that's all. They were, as I said, actually designated 348 CSAI-GTs (please see attached :) Michelotto automobili -Progettazione, realizzazione e sviluppo prototipi vetture stradali e auto da competizione ). Many call them GTCs and in fact I think many have acquired GTCompetizione badges, but that isn't what Michelotto called them. Looking at the chassis numbers and the date (they were acquired in 1992) they were converted TBs.

    At the same time Simpson Racing acquired a TB and entered it in Le Mans in 1993, many call it a 348 LM - kind of unrelated but just for info.

    Michelotto then converted two 348s (GTBs I believe) for Le Mans in 1994. One was for Respol Ferrari Espagne and the other for Ferrari Club Italia. These WERE designated 348 GTC-LMs. Although they were not strictly speaking 'works cars' I believe they were actually mostly converted and tested at Maranello.

    At the same time the Factory released, like you say, the ultimate road legal 348 and called it the GTC.

    So I was just being 'picky' like you said, but the original Michelotto cars were not in fact GTCs although almost everyone now refers to them as such. Michelotto called them 348 CSAI-GTs, it was only after the release of the factory GTCs and the GTC LMs that people started to (incorrectly) start calling them GTCs. Semantics - they were 348s built for competition so who really cares :)
     
  25. Nosevi

    Nosevi Formula 3

    Jul 8, 2011
    1,990
    Lincoln
    Full Name:
    Pete
    Daz, just to finish up, yep spot on, but the Michelotto cars don't have anything to do with the factory GTCs. Factory GTCs yep, absolutely but these aren't the cars that were in the Italian GT championship that I wrote about, those were designated as I've said above and were TBs.

    Not sure if you're mixing up factory GTCs (which you have) with Michelotto cars? The two are entirely different beasts.
     

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