Nice ride, so this may cause considerable offence... Stanceworks 308 GTBi (Honda K24 Swap)

David Lee's "Dino Monza 3.6 Evo" Dino build was a lot of smoke and mirrors - the engine was a 3.2, from a Mondial 3.2 (the engine number was spotted and checked at a show'n'shine, in a different thread here). Basically, he commissioned it from Moto Technique www.mototechnique.com/home in the UK, and it's one of their routine restomods that customers can spec. The F40 engine claims by Lee are pure marketing fiction, and a bit ridiculous (and unnecessary) - why would anyone take a longitudinal turbo V8 engine and convert it back to normally aspirated transverse? Sure, an F40 engine was evolved from a 308 QV engine, but not the same thing as an F40 engine at all. His claim that he would do a series of cars and sell them was also marketing nonsense - unfortunately, he got Jay Leno involved to give it credibility and publicity. I don't know if Lee ever did sell another of "his" restomod Dinos, but Moto Technique certainly has - check out their linked website above. They do restomod 308s, too, with 3.6 or 3.8 V8s using the well known formulas.

Gordon

 

812 motor in the f40 evo! Thought would be 488 but this is cool. Good luck!

 

I k7nd of feel bad for Mike because once he drives the V12 the k20 308 is either getting slow or getting a V12

 

812 engine? hopefully they will supercharge it and skip the twin turbos.

 

I plan to keep it NA for now, I want that V12 to sing And I think 800hp will be more than enough.

 

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NEW - Jan. 23(?) 2025


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wow, talk about persistence! well done.

 

he will never give up but wouldnt it have been so much easier and entertaining if he took car like a 360 and rebodied it to something interesting instead of taking 308 and trying to reengineer everything around it? his way is a sisyphean task but i wish him well and admire his gung ho attitude. same goes for his f40 project

 

It was never about entertainment. It's about building a car I want to build. A 360 rebodied into something else is entirely unappealing to me.

 

He is milking it for drama and it just gets tiring and you never hear the engine..... just his terrible droned voice
So many YT'ers do this to generate cliks

 

I absolutely hate to address the elephant in the room so bluntly as I do admire the fabrication work that has gone into this Mike, this takes tenacity and talent. Even though I'm not a huge fan of the build I certainly admire the work. BUT, the elephant as it were is: you have have built one bulletproof monster of a 308 engine using a 360 crank/rods, boosted, NA, whatever you wanted with whatever your hp goals were, considering the number of motors you've had to dump into this thing. Actually I'm certain at this point it would have been tons less. As you are a content creator and enthusiast I get that your subs are digging the build so of course carry on, but my gosh this thing has put you through the muck. Hope it works out with this one

 

You caught me! Guys, this man figured out my long con.

For the sake of discussion, let's say you're right. Let's say I invested the money to build the F106 with turbos and whatever else.
Regardless of cost, I'd still have a drivetrain that weighs hundreds of pounds more than what I've put into my car. Weight is the enemy of a race car, especially if we're talking about 500+ extra pounds hanging over the ass end of the car. There's more to the swap than just money.

But, on top of that, the assumption this could be done to the factory engine for anywhere close to what I've spent, despite being on my 4th engine, is just wrong.
It would cost a fortune to have someone properly build an F106 to a "bulletproof" standard, and to set it up with modern fuel injection - that's gonna require a ton of custom work. Just the 360 parts you're talking about cost about as much as one of my Ks do.

For napkin math, let's say I don't have to buy a new F106 to start with and used the one in the car. Let's also say I'm not gonna spend the money to put 4V heads on it or anything (which, let's be honest, would be the right way to go). Do you really think any engine builder worth their salt is gonna do everything needed to properly build an engine like you're saying, for under $20,000?

Because after selling my F106 to offset the cost of my first engine, that's what I've spent in total on replacements. I paid for my 1st engine and 2nd replacement from 4Piston, the 3rd was a provided replacement, and I paid for my new engine from RS Machine. In total, I have spent $29,573 across the four (three) engines. I sold my F106 for $11,750, and the rest of the accessories for $5,000 flat. That's a cost of $17,323 to me. Yeah, there's other costs with the build, but none really specific to the swap versus building a race car with the original V8.

NFF, for example, wants several times what I have spent to build a proper engine.

And then what happens if something goes wrong and I destroy an F106? Then I'm fully ****ed and have to spend a genuine mountain of money again to keep the car on track.

The cost argument doesn't hold up to any scrutiny at all. Even if you're having ****ing awful luck with an engine builder like I have.

 

You've been getting your crate engines for a heck of a lot cheaper than anticipated, but it's not just those costs, it's the hundreds if not thousands of hours you've spent fabricating everything from the ground up to mount the thing in there, have suspension that works, custom driveshafts, brakes, intercoolers, piping etc etc etc, all of which are prototypes so you have no idea if they'll work and how many times you'll have to re-engineer. There's no cost involved as it's your time, but it remains a factor as that directly removes you from paying projects, so that is like for like as I see it. The time factor combined with the onset of capital far outweighs building a 308 motor with 360 crank (which I've done btw and it's not nearly as much as you think). And you can't use 4v heads on a 2v block, you're stuck 2v, but they've indeed been boosted to extreme levels before so no problem. As for weight, the net difference with drivetrains is probably somewhere around 200-300lbs, which is significant, but in the end, with a Ferrari motor in there it's still 100% a Ferrari.

But I get it, that's not what this is all about. Glad your viewers enjoy the project, it is indeed clever it makes for great fabricator content, and wish you better luck with this next motor.

 

This Retro Supercar Is Actually a Ferrari 360 Underneath
totally different approach

 

The time invested in making engine mounts is pretty minimal in the scope of the project. The rest of the stuff you're mentioning would have gotten done no matter what engine went in. The suspension needed a redesign, brakes, turbo plumbing/fab, intercoolers, etc. It'd all be required either way, so really some engine mounts for the K series is in the noise. I don't think it added much to the scope of the project.

The factory engine/trans with accessories is 450 pounds heavier than my current engine/trans fully dressed minus the turbo itself. The V8, turbo'd (presumably twin-turbo'd) withe everything needed would only increase the weight delta. I think 500 pounds is a reasonable, conservative estimate.

And again, it couldn't be done for anywhere close to what I've spent. So there's that too.

There's an ass for every seat. I wouldn't want that if it had a trunk full of money.

 

What specifically dont you like? 360 is a nice sports car ride and new body is subjectivity nice looking. I respect your opinion so eager to hear why u don't like

 

On the weight aspect, how? How is the new drivetrain 450lbs less then the Ferrari setup?

 

That car just has no appeal to me. I think it's quite ugly and I'm not a fan of all of these "production restomods" that keep coming out. I'd much rather just have a 360.

Because the Ferrari setup was heavy, don't know what more I can add to the explanation than that. There's a real common misconception that these cars are lighter than they are in reality. My car weighed in right at 3200lbs in stock form.
I weighed the factory engine/trans on camera, and then weighed all of the components along with it. It was right at 850 pounds in total. It doesn't mean you couldn't lose weight (probably quite a bit, if you wanted) but that's the hard numbers.

 

Objection. The injected engine is around 550-600lbs tops. I’ve weighed a number of them and literally just shipped one I rebuilt via freight, and including the crate the shipping weight was about 600lbs. Heading to France. @smg2 has shipped a zillion of these too and can attest to same.

Your drivetrain with gearbox, intercoolers, and everything else required to run the thing doesn’t save as much weight net as you think. A quick search shows K series drivetrains fully dressed weigh over 400lbs without a turbo. I stand by my statement of 200-300lbs net savings but probably closer to 200 if that.

Getting a US 308GTB to under 2900lbs is pretty easy with Euro bumpers and dumping some emissions items, that’s what the Euro steel cars weigh, and of course the Michelotto and modern Michelotto builds by MaT of Finland weigh in at ~2200lbs.


Your project is unique though, I get it, and I get why people are into it. Fabulous job doing what you’ve done.

 

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I weighed the long block with the gearbox, starter, alternator, and the original intake runners still mounted to the engine. It was 610 pounds. So it sounds like our numbers line up. My 850lbs weight includes all of the engine accessories and components that came out with it, including manifolds and such. I'd have to go back and see what other miscellaneous parts are lumped in there.
The K series is 405lbs in factory trim, fully dressed, with the gearbox. Mine's a bit lighter thanks to a lighter gearbox, clutch, flywheel, intake manifold, and more.

You are correct, I have the turbo and all of that to account for, which closes the gap to an NA build. If you turbo a 308 (or more likely, twin turbo it), you're removing that delta entirely, if not actually widening the gap due to the additional turbo, all of the weight from a second turbo manifold, the additional exhaust, etc.
I think to say a twin-turbo F106 would be 500 pounds over what I've got now might be aggressive, but not outrightly unfair. It'd be easy to hit that if you aren't being weight conscious.

I do believe you that dropping the weight of a US car to 2900lbs is quite doable: the factory bumpers are heavy, as are those engine components, like the smog pump, the factory exhaust, etc.

The MaT cars make me envious, they're works of art and are considerably nicer than what I've built. More than anything, I'm envious of the composite body. I think I'd trim considerable weight going that route and land with a car under 2,000 pounds with some creative weight loss in a final few places. Maybe in the future.

I'm well aware what the cars can weigh. I am also well aware of what my car did weigh. This isn't a "gotcha" moment, unfortunately.

 

I wasn't implying anything or trying for a "gotcha" moment!!

I was just being a smartass to John

It's your car, your money, and your deal! I think it's great to try off the wall things! That's why there is chocolate and vanilla

About 15-20 yrs ago I was doing some off the wall things with a diesel pickup that very few people in the country were doing. I had a 6800 lb. 4 wheel drive diesel truck running high 9's @ 150+ making 2000 hp when most couldn't make over 500. People thought I was NUTS! But it was what drove me at the time!