Nickforza ignition system, is it good ?

I installed the TEC3 about 5-6 years ago in my '83 GTS. Runs great. Installation is straight forward, just take you time and do it right the first time. Several things:
Getting ALL the grounds solid is critical.
Remove engine ground near front damper and put it near starter.
Loctite set screws on crank timing wheel.
VERIFY timing with timing light.
EFI - do the math and get the proper size injectors. I'm running 19lbs.

You'll probably pick up a verifiable 35 hps, the engine will rev to readline in a heartbeat, and you can tune the the engine on the fly / realtime using a laptop.

 

Did you mean 3 to 5 hp gain? If you want 35 hp you'll need to add some Webers or throttle bodies, maybe some higher compression and maybe different cams too.

 

You better put wider tires and bigger brakes on your car first! My calculations will put you at about 445 horse power...

 

3 to 5 hp is believable on the ignition, if that much.

35 hp takes a good deal more air...

To be the devil's advocate for a moment, the only reason to get a different ignition system is reliability unless you are running boost. You will not signifigantly improve on the Marelli's flame front performance in a normally aspirated vehicle, but you will be much more reliable than that sorry ass POS.

 

Agreed, plus selling the stock POS decades old boxes pays for the modern XDI system

 

Now THAT makes me think I might actually do this some time soon! I would generally save the parts just in case I ever sell it and someone wants to return it to stock but I am starting to think that is pretty unlikely. How much are the old parts worth?

 

Boxes sell for $1600/pair last i checked years ago when i dumped mine. Dist caps are around $200 for both used in good condition. The wire, maybe $50 or so. Frankly, keep the wire and remove the spark plug hole covers off them and use them on the Taylor wires to keep water out.

 

35HP - I'm talking about doing a complete EFI conversion vs stock. Engine management system is only 1 part of the project.

 

You have to define "a complete EFI conversion vs stock." That does not, by definition, include individual throttle bodies or carbs. You simply will not get near 35 hp without these unless the current system is WAY out of wack.

That's not what is written in your post:

I installed the TEC3 about 5-6 years ago in my '83 GTS. Runs great. Installation is straight forward, just take you time and do it right the first time. Several things:
Getting ALL the grounds solid is critical.
Remove engine ground near front damper and put it near starter.
Loctite set screws on crank timing wheel.
VERIFY timing with timing light.
EFI - do the math and get the proper size injectors. I'm running 19lbs.

You'll probably pick up a verifiable 35 hps, the engine will rev to readline in a heartbeat, and you can tune the the engine on the fly / realtime using a laptop.

 

This thread has gone quiet but I am still intrigued by the idea of an upgrade that might actually not cost too much. (once the old parts are sold) I want to do the ignition upgrade as well as the fuel injection system. I am not looking for any performance improvement so if I get some that's just a bonus. I want reliability and availability of parts. My WUR has been overhauled to keep the car running but I think they were intended to be replaced not fixed. I like the idea of a rev limiter also.

Verell mentioned the Haltec and Motec systems that Nicks Forza sells support EFI. I must admit that I am not as knowledgeable as I would like to be about these upgrades. The ability to customize the maps just sounds like additional complexity to me. Which system would you recommend based upon my desire for reliability and availability of parts. What other aspects of this upgrade should I be thinking about. Other than sacrificing originality, is there a downside to this?

 

None, you now have modern parts and more accuracy and better tuning capability.

 

The Forza modified XDI is a great set up for those who want reliability & a little more power. My version is designed for your DIY weekend project, there is no butchering of the car, it is all reversible if for some reason you had to remove it. With my set up you will have only two tiny holes in the timing cover visible if you were to remove it.

You do see a HP increase on injected cars as the timing is so conservative with the OEM digiplexes. I have many other engine management systems that I do sell, some more complex, some more expensive, but as far as a solid upgrade with a proven track record of many hundreds sold, my modified XDI has been a winner. With our custom trigger wheel & our 24/7 tech support during the install, its pretty hard to beat for the money.

With respect to full engine management (fuel injection & ignition) we are seeing an average of 30 HP compared to the stock CIS Ferrari set up. Some of you are talking about individual throttles, I have them on one of my cars, they are cool but expensive, not enough bang for the buck for the street in my opinion. I am up to 3.5 liters so I am running 46MM TWM's individual throttles to get the needed air into the engine due to its increased displacement, that is the only reason I am using them.

Below is a dyno sheet of an injected 2 valve engine with a Electromotive TEC GT running batch fire.

Here are a few links, one to my to my individual throttle using a TEC 3R and the car which that dyno sheet is from. TEC GT videos.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GbeoqQreTI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj629Cr1V6g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_MhmsdFWvo&NR=1
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What's the price for a TEC3 package?

 

The TEC GT or TEC 3 set ups are come with our custom trigger wheel & sensor bracket, all sensors, injectors & more as it is both fuel & ignition.

The packages vary depending on what the client is requesting. The biggest difference between the two engine management systems is the TEC GT does not offer sequential on 8 cylinder applications & does not have as many general purpose out puts the TEC3 R does.

The TEC series products are both fuel & ignition. The XDI is just ignition. Average complete engine management kit price by the time you are done is approx $5,000.00, it could be a little more or a little less depending on what your needs are. The XDI package sells for $1650.00

 

Ok so on my application, less the injectors, what kind of price are we talking about?
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They are sweet....

 

TEC GT set up less injectors is approx $3,000.00. You will not see 30 hp with just an XDI but you should see approx 30 with a TEC GT package.

 

Nick,
Your custom XDI system takes about a weekend to put in, and doesn't require anything difficult. How about the EFI+ignition TEC system for QV. Do you have to remove plenum. Is there machining? I assume you provide the mapping? Getting rid of digiplex and CIS at same time sounds nice.

 

I've always wondered why no one ever copied K&Ns design. Great performance, a decent price AND reusable.

 

Regardng individual throttle bodies, it may surprise some that in some situations (not all) a fewer number of throttle bodies and even a common plenum can provide better power than individual throttle bodies and runners, particularly for carbureted cars. Individual throttle bodies are generally used for EFI because the atomization is better due to more controlled intake velocity and flow.

There are plenty of V8s that'll make more and better power with a four barrel holley on a big common plenum than with four individual twin choke down draft webers into separate runners. The basic rules for making big power with EFI aren't that much different, however, the big advantage EFI has it super good atomization (due to very high fuel pressures) and controlled timing of injection (precisely why CIS is poor...).

 

Au contraire, mon frere... many are

Speed by Spectre
AirRaid
AEM
Edelbrock
Injen
Volant
S&B

To name a few

Rick