Nick's 308 to 4.0 conversion

I do enjoy living in the past, it's the whole essence of owning a classic car. If I want a modern car, I'll buy one, or recommend my customers do the same.

I'm from the Uk, and grew up in a house that was 450 years old, I'd kill anyone that tried to make it look/behave like a modern house. The THING with classic cars is their character. The stock pumps last for years and years and perform beyond what most people require. That is a FACT, proven extensively and beyond question.

....Titanium valves eh.... bully for you. I thought the idea was to reduce service intervals, these guys just seem to sell parts that are expensive. Super touring race cars have titanium valves, and they need to be replaced every 1500km in racing. Hope you get yours checked regularly. Ask around and see how it affects the re-sale value of your car.......

Every dollar you spend on non original parts, reduces the typical re-sale value of your car by a similar amount. So be sure to keep it a while, or compound your losses.

 

Re sale value? I bought my Ferrari to drive and keep for the rest of my life, who the hell would want to sell a car they dreamed of owning when they were younger. You must be one of those folks that doesn't drive their Ferrari as high milelage would effect the "resell" value....I have 75,000 miles on my car (photo above) and I hope to double that.
No wonder you like "adequate". I love you guys with your 308 trailer queens! Know wonder your water pump and cam bearings last forever.

By the way I guess you didn't have indoor plumbing in your 450 year old house? or did you kill the plumber?
Your statements and posts are nothing but someone who has nothing better to do then be critical for no reason. Your 450 year old house statement shows that you are not to be taken seriously on this thread. Don't get a splinter in the "outhouse"!

 

Maybe to YOU personally, but most people see simple upgrades such as better AC, improved ignition systems, and 16" wheels on older 308's as upgrades that add VALUE to the car. Those items certainly don't reduce it's value except to the collector looking for a show piece. The rest of us want to drive our cars w/o having to service them every other week.

 

Guys

To me the technical discussion has value. Off topic opinions detract and make as much comment on the proponent as the subject. I have my own opinions about the value/desirability of modifications. I just don't think they are relevant here.

Phil makes the charge that Ti valves are a light but high wear item that will require short interval replacement. He cites race car experience. Mark, what's your team's experience and does your experience support a longeveity claim for the material use or not?
Philip

 

Go dude go!

As for the OTHER GUY... WTF is 'resale value' and why should i gave a frittering carp about it??? Technology has moved forward in the past few decades.

DRIVE THE DAMN THING!!!!!!!!!!! (until you lose you license... but note this is an old ticket and NOT a new one... phew)
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Before thing go off on a tangent again, I need to address Ferrarifixer’s comments about titanium valves. He apparently assumes that we are using titanium valves and has concluded that the use of these valves would not be appropriate for our application.

The 4-liter engine will use ultra high-end stainless steel valves. I have no idea where the rumor started that we are using titanium valves. We are concerned about reliability and titanium has long-term issues that are not a factor in race engines. With this been said, we have notice that the new Corvette engine has titanium valves. Our valves will be unique to our engine. They are not off the shelf pieces. You could correctly conclude that valve stems, valve size, valve material, valve shape, and valve length have been modified for the 4-liter engine. We are researching the benefits and costs associated with using “diamond like carbon coatings” on selected valve train components. This is trickle down technology from F1. We will keep everybody advised as to our findings.

I am using titanium rods. Nick is using steel rods. Both are considered to be upgrades over the stock rods and hardware. The titanium rods cost about $2,500 more for a set of 8. Our rods are basically race quality pieces that were originally manufactured for use in other automotive company’s racecars. Basically we are using off the shelf racecar parts for our application. This gets us great parts at better prices. The trick is in picking the best parts that will fit the 4-liter engine. Yes, the engine will look like a Ferrari from the outside, but inside it will be a mutt. I am sure the Ferrari purest will be offended, but the car will run like a greyhound not like the Cocker Spaniel that it is now.

On the subject of the water pump, it is difficult to discuss whether our pump is worth the asking price when we have not released retail pricing. Apparently, Ferrarifixer thinks that our new pump is over priced regardless of what it costs.

Nick, Steve and I are very interested to hear the reaction when Paul Sloan receives and tests his new pump. Hopefully, he will share his opinions with this audience.

In addition, Ferrarifixer has not addressed the cause of water pump seal failure, nor has he acknowledged that our conclusions are correct.

Ferrarifixer has determined that we are fear mongers. Apparently we are ruthless people trying to scary people into a water pump that is unnecessary. The truth is that will want the 4-liter engine to be chilling at full throttle, while Ferrarifixer will be content to roast marshmallows on the rear bonnet.

Sincerely,

Mark Lewis

 

Mark, you're a dreamer. re-read a few posts, as your last one is simply laughable.

Sloane said he is using your Titanium valves

I have no idea what you are charging for your pumps. Maybe you could tell us, or is it one of those secret boys clubs where everyone gets charged whatever you feel like..... I have certainly not expressed any opinion on your pricing, so you better retract that assumption.

As for re-sale.... most people grow out of 308's, or simply get another car if they seek more speed. But I guess this whole thread is for those that can't, or won't

 

Hey Ferrari Fixer, the price of the Waterpumps will be on my website once all the R& D is factored in which should be with in the week. With respect to Paul Sloan’s parts, ultimately the customer chooses what parts he wishes to purchase for his Vehicle; all we can offer is suggestions from our experiences. I also believe that Paul Sloan’s valve springs are Titanium along with his retainers, I believe that the original valves I supplied him were stainless steel but its been so long ago I would have to check his file, in any event the 4.1 liter engine is different than what I did with Paul Sloan, Mark at that time was not involved in that particular project. Question, I have been trying to grow out of my 308’s(its now 3 of them) but I just keep on buying more! Tell us what’s your secret? I get calls every day with guys wanting to buy a 308 & wanting it to go fast cause they love the body style & they do not want to buy a newer model. Just out of curiosity what kind of Ferrari’s do you drive?

 

I own a 512BB carb. Quite similar to 308 in styling and most other sensory areas too, with better noise and better power. One of only 102 right hand drive cars too, which adds appeal in my opinion as a UK/Aus driver. I WOULD have bought a 308, but I have driven and serviced so many, and knew that ultimately, it wouldn't satisfy. The BB does it for me at the moment, but I might change it one day, for a hotted up 308 most likely.

My dream car however, is a 288. Just like a 308 with double the power, but just as chuckable on it's balloon tyres.....and has a stock 308 type water pump FYI!!

I have no problems admitting Ferrari parts are not first rate, but they are fit for the purpose, and the cars are greater than the sum of their parts.

 

"In fact I was so scared I bought a Electromotive ignition system, drop gears and titanium valves among many other things over the past 5 years."

Slow down Ferrari Fixer before you get another splinter on your bum.... not all these items came from Nick...a majority yes but not all. As for Mark I have never bought anything from him up until the new water pump which I expect in a week or so. I will be loading my engine back into the car in the next few weeks and then I will report on the pump.

"I own a 512BB carb. Quite similar to 308 in styling and most other sensory areas too" WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU SMOKING?

 

Could it be possible that Ferrarifixer is a closet 4-liter admirer? Is there a “hotted up” 4-liter in Ferrarifixer’s future? What is next? Will Ferrarifixer be installing our new water pumps by the boatload?


“My dream car however, is a 288. Just like a 308 with double the power…”

“…but I might change it one day, for a hotted up 308 most likely.”


While Ferrarifixer is putting another scrimp on the barrie, I’ll call Steve and tell to order another set of sleeves!

Sincerely,

Mark Lewis

 

Mark, I'm a pom, so I still eat fish and chips or curry thanks.

And I'll want to re-sell whatever I get one day, so it'll stay close to std.

I like the idea of a bolt on supercharger though....... better job, cheaper, quicker to achieve, proven, and can be removed and put on the next car.......

 

This is getting very scary. Ferrarifixer and I are almost on the same page.

I got an idea for you, Ferrarifixer. You sent us your block and we will install your 4-liter sleeves, order a new crank and stuff, and then you and your pet kangaroo can assemble all of the pieces. You would probably want to use our cam profile. You can play with the heads until the cows come home. It will look and feel stock right up until you turn the key.

If you want to get really crazy, put your own blower on the car. Be careful, you just might want to up grade the stock cooling system.

If you choose to upgrade the drive bearing we will have to change your name from Ferrarifixer to Ferrarimodifier. Our engine will require far less maintenance. This is a good thing; you can spend more time driving and less time fixing.

If you want to know the jobber cost for the water pumps, give Nick a call. There have been a lot of enquires so far. We would be honored to talk to you.

By the way, what is a "pom"?

Thanks,

Mark Lewis

 

Australian common slang for a Brit. Often heard as 'pommie'

 

OK guys, lets settle down. Mark, do you have a complete engine out yet? If not, what are the current "snags." Are you getting any closer to being able to come up with some sort of pricing chart? I am sure that there will be many different prices for the many services you will be offering.

Thanks,
Sam

PS. Do I get credit toward my 4.0 for starting this thread - LOL?

 

Pom originally comes from Prisoner Of her Majesty, I think is the term, maybe a real Aussie can elaborate.

Is it 4 litre or 4.1. I'm confused now??

No thanks Mark, I'm happier driving my car anyway, knowing that if something does go wrong, I can get it fixed quite quickly with parts from the Fiat Bin or another similar car locally to aid any diagnosis, if needed.

Custom cars are notorious for down time, and you've still got to do valve clearances and fluids anyway, so how much less maintenance will it need? I'm happy to fit a water pump once every 10-15 years by the way, so I'm not attracted by the savings there so far.

 

Mark,
I'm new to the list,indeed first time ownership to the flagship.
I have been following this thread, and the history (as i have only recently
joined). Firstly i think you are doing a wonderful thing, we need people like you, it makes life interesting ,exciting and most of all gives others
a goal and ultimately a purpose.
I am in total agreeance, with yourself as far as enhancing a car.
I can hear the purists screeming in objection, and by the same tune I can understand them too. I really feel it is what your personal requirements and tatse are.
I plan to keep my 308GTB for a long time, and i have already ordered
Brembsport discs and 4-pot calipers, I feel even this small modification
will make the car more drivable. and as i use the car as often as i can,
i need to feel more in control.
I will also be interested in your 4.1 litre engine. (Are you at testing
stage yet? ) Well I stop rambling on now , and hope to hear more from
your project.
Stas 308GTB dry sump
UK based.

 

Ferrarifixer,

The displacement of the engine is as follows:

Bore 89 mm
Stroke 82 mm
Displacement 4.081 liters
Stock Displacement 2.927 liters

Percent Change 39.43%

Sincerely,

Mark Lewis

 

Aasprou,

Your upgrade of the brake system is very significant. Any thing that you modify to enhance something that you can actually feel or touch with your hands or feet translates in to a very good thing. The Brembo kit is one that have been chronicled several times in the archives of this website.

The engine is not ready at this point for the dyno. Our goal is to have the car running at Monterey in August. At that time, we will be able to personally demonstrate the benefits of the 4-liter concept.

I will follow up later this weekend with a full-blown status report. Thanks for your kind words. They tend to fuel our continued enthusiasm for the project.

Sincerely,

Mark Lewis

 

The purists can go kick rocks. The only original Ferrari parts the Prodrive 550 engine had were the block, heads, and crank. Yet you don't hear anyone crying about that now do you.

 

In fact the prodrive was over 6.0 liters not the stock 5.5.
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and the Prodrive car does not have a Ferrari crank either.......

 

With the first car they had to use the stock crank because they were under time constraints. As for water pumps, they used an ELECTRIC water pump. So hows that for solving the bearing problem. They got rid of the problem altogether.

 

Yeah, they use two Davies Craig thermo controlled water pumps, made here in Melbourne. Good units.

The stock 550 crank (when used for racing) is weak around the rear main journal, plus they stroked it for all the 6 litre cars so built their own.

 

Does the water pump work for the 328?

How much for a complete unit?

Engine out needed to install or can I squeeze?

PM details if possible. If its a hassle to install, I will get it done next major.