News

Nicks Forza Ferrari suspension bushing experiences??

Discussion in '308/328' started by built2grind, Apr 14, 2019 at 11:10 AM.

  1. built2grind

    built2grind Karting

    Oct 16, 2016
    142
    The Peninsula
    Full Name:
    ANDREW
    I'm planning on rebuilding the complete suspension on my "84 QV this winter, and was wondering if anyone here has used the A-arm suspension bushings from Nicks Forza Ferrari? I was reading up on them and they re-use the factory welded in bushing sleeve, this would save a lot of time and would allow the A-arms to be powder coated easily, rather than just paint them. I like this feature ALOT. However I am not opposed to using OEM original factory parts, and i'm not building a Concorse Correct car, but saw these and was curious if anyone LIKES or DISLIKES these bushings? I don't plan on tracking my 308 either.

    Has anyone used them and is willing to share their thoughts on them verses using factory bushings? My past experiences with Poly Graphite bushings is that they squeaked. These are advertised as "impregnated" and will not squeak. Again, I'm curious if anyone has them installed on their 308 and what do you think of them????

    PROS and CONS of both styles would be greatly appreciated, Factory and NFF. I'm doing my research early so any help from you guys would be great. I'm open for all comments and criticism.

    Thanks
     
  2. thorn

    thorn Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 7, 2012
    1,816
    Tallahassee, FL
    Random thoughts:

    I recently changed my front bushings out, going from worn-out factory to poly bushings. I didn't use the ones you're referring to. The ones I got required cutting the tack-weld off, then pressing out the old and pressing in the new. The cutting off was easy; the installation was a bit of a hassle (and I did use a proper press.)

    The ones I have do indeed squeak (this may/may not apply to Nick's bushings...) If I were to do the procedure again, I'd stay with OEM. I have the ability to tack-weld new OEM, and that's what I'll probably do whenever I replace the rear ones.

    The ride is firmer, which was expected. It's also harsher. The car behaves better than before, but as I also corrected some steering problems, replaced the sway bushings, did a full alignment, and have new tires - it's hard to quantify how the poly bushings are the improvement factor.

    My a-arms were powder-coated by the PO. They look nice, but based on my research - powder coating can "cover/hide" cracks if they form. In light of this, I'd prefer they have stayed painted.

    Rifledriver has pointed out in the past that there's simply nothing inherently wrong with OEM bushings, and I believe that for street use that's a better way to go. The easier installation simply isn't that big of an advantage, in my opinion.
     
    Cirorsi likes this.
  3. Portofino

    Portofino Karting

    Sep 17, 2011
    94
    Yorkshire UK / Switzerland/ Cote d Azur
    Full Name:
    Portofino
    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login I did a bit of re search before deciding on theses https://bellclassics.co.uk/product/ferrari-208-246-308-328-suspension-polyurethane-bush-kit/
    The worry was basically damaging the A arms by grinding out the welds , problems re welding in the sense they can fracture later .

    Over stressing the A arms with heat cycles of welding and actually the final alignment.
    If it’s not right people just force the bolt through and later on something gives .

    Well that what these guys said I telephoned them for advice.

    Theses guys ( click about the site to feel the depth of Ferrari know how ) advised me to go for there’s over std poly bushes as there’s are just the right OEM stiffness and mimic OEM for car shows etc cosmetically.
    They are doing refurbs all the time so see the good , bad and the ugly.

    They don’t squeak either .

    It’s not a jarring ride just firm and sporty .
    They do track only spec bushes as well for race prep cars .

    Shock bushes and sway bar bushes done as well parts from super performance.

    I just waxoiled the arms as the original paint was un effected.
     
  4. derekw

    derekw Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 7, 2010
    768
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    Derek W
    I just fitted some of the Superformance original style rubber bushes. Ground off the welds with a Dremel wheel, hot air gun and penetrant, dead bow hammer and a vice to get them out, then a vice and a suitable socket to press them in. My 32mm socket was not quite deep enough so I used one of the thick spacers (forward bush of the front upper a-arm.) Was easier than I thought even with a couple of them needing a bit more hot air, penetrant, persuasion.

    I read elsewhere in the forum that you don't need to tack them in place and looking at the geometry I would agree as the bushes both go in from the inside and the geometry of the setup would require a massive force to get them to budge and the a-arm would be seriously bent long before they moved.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  5. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    May 4, 2001
    28,053
    Birmingham, AL
    Full Name:
    Tommy
    Drive one with new OEM and you will want it that way.
     
    dflett likes this.
  6. dflett

    dflett Formula 3

    Jun 24, 2005
    1,452
    NY
    Full Name:
    David
    Very true. As someone who went with poly bushings for a couple years and then went back to OEM. Poly were too harsh and too squeaky for my car on NY roads.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    Dr Tommy Cosgrove likes this.
  7. Brian Harper

    Brian Harper F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Feb 17, 2006
    3,539
    San Jose area
    Full Name:
    Brian Harper
    Hmmm. I disagree. With the OEM setup I think the tack welds are to keep the a-arm from rotating on the steel bushing shell. The shell is welded to the a-arm and the tube in the center is clamped hard in the chassis. The rotation of the a-arm causes a twisting of rubber that is bonded to both steel parts. I think with no tack weld you'd have the a-arm pivoting on the bearing shell. Neither part was designed for this.
     
    dflett, derekw and Saabguy like this.
  8. derekw

    derekw Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 7, 2010
    768
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    Derek W
    You’re right Brian. I was thinking about the axial forces and had completely forgotten that the inner shell rotates relative to the fixed outer shell. They were so tight they would probably never turn but I’ll tack them just in case. Thanks!
     
  9. Portofino

    Portofino Karting

    Sep 17, 2011
    94
    Yorkshire UK / Switzerland/ Cote d Azur
    Full Name:
    Portofino
    That’s one point the guys at Bell Classics carped on about , fractured tack welds and the thing spinning .It may seem tight now but eventually they move .
    Remember Bells commissioned there poly bushes it took a few goes to get the elasticity as near as dam it to OEM .Not to be confused with any old internet poly bush that a kid will buy to soup up his golf GTi - wants a stiff ride etc .

    As said they do a traditional hard Bush for track guys .
    The motivation came from the potential errors and seeing others coming in which had recent replacement OEM style with issues .

    If you look around there site they manufacture various problem Ferrari parts for various tipos .

    Hills just sell better parts for Ferrari’s like tensioner bearings .Bells manufacture and hands on fit do the spannering
     
  10. Nino1964

    Nino1964 Karting

    Aug 14, 2015
    135
    North Georgia
    I used the Nick Forza bushings and the ride is very nice but the bushings moan/squeal with any control arm movement.
     
    jcurry likes this.
  11. sltillim

    sltillim Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 22, 2009
    1,112
    San Diego
    Full Name:
    Spencer Tillim
    I have them but haven't installed yet.
     
  12. dinogt4guy

    dinogt4guy F1 Rookie

    Oct 31, 2004
    3,181
    Hewitt, Tx.
    Full Name:
    Dino Tifosi
    I have them also but haven’t installed them either, but these aren’t supposed to Squeek.
     
  13. waymar

    waymar Formula Junior

    Sep 2, 2008
    850
    Northeast, PA - USA
    Full Name:
    Wayne
    I installed poly on my 308 lower arms front and rear. No squeak. Greased per instructions with suppliers lube.
     
  14. dflett

    dflett Formula 3

    Jun 24, 2005
    1,452
    NY
    Full Name:
    David
    Mine didn’t squeak in the first year but then they started. First in the cold weather (when temps were around freezing) and then got worse.

    I took that corner apart and relubed with the supplied sticky grease again. That worked again for another year and started squeaking again.

    At which point I said **** it.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    thorn likes this.
  15. dflett

    dflett Formula 3

    Jun 24, 2005
    1,452
    NY
    Full Name:
    David
    Poly bushings work by one plastic surface moving against another plastic surface (actually two surfaces if you include the shear action). This action can squeak unless the surfaces can be kept sufficiently apart. The lube is supposed to do that but it does not always work long term.

    The reality is that car manufacturers don’t fit poly bushings even on performance models because a) they wear much faster than bonded rubber bushings and b) they are prone to squeak. Issue a) might not be a factor on low mileage toys but b) is in my experience.

    And then there is NVH (noise, vibration and harshness) of poly but I think that is very dependent on the roads you have. The roads near me are generally **** so NVH was high when I ran poly.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    Saabguy likes this.
  16. andyww

    andyww F1 Rookie

    Feb 7, 2011
    2,772
    London
    All true but there is more. If the suspension places any degree of axial twist on the bushes, the resistance to this can over-stress the mountings or wishbones.

    Also the bonded bushes form part of the springing of the suspension, effectively a rising-rate spring, so the suspension characteristics will be fundamentally different.

    Whenever I flit between this forum and the Lotus Esprit forum, owning one of those also, with very similar suspension, this discussion comes up on both and I always end up wondering why people dont respect the experts at Ferrari and Lotus who designed the suspension and fit originals. Why even consider any inferior alternatives?
    Only one possible exception to the above, there is at least one UK company making bonded poly bushes, of the same shore rating as originals, maybe these are the type mentioned earlier in this thread. These would be viable but not the type with rotating semi-solid parts. But again, the only advantage is longevity, the rubber ones last at least 15 years, how long are people expecting to own these cars?
     
    dflett and Andy 308GTB like this.
  17. sltillim

    sltillim Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 22, 2009
    1,112
    San Diego
    Full Name:
    Spencer Tillim
    For my entire life.....
     
    Saabguy likes this.
  18. built2grind

    built2grind Karting

    Oct 16, 2016
    142
    The Peninsula
    Full Name:
    ANDREW
    Thanks guys for all the insight. You've all helped me make my decision of going with OEM rubber. After all, thats what came from the factory.
     
    Nino1964 likes this.

Share This Page