And arguably by the same token, all those ahead of him bar Alonso, are in cars that have been superior to the Ferrari for almost all the season. So, if we need to compare apples with apples then we can only look at Alonso. Based on "discussions" in other threads, it is known that Massa has had six incidents with a certain other driver (lets not open that can of worms again!) for a start, that have cost him dearly in races. He has scored 98 points despite the incidents, but how many points did they cost him?, 5?, 10?, 20?, 30?, who knows? It is well known that unfortunately, Massa doesn't react well to such incidents and normally his head drops (unlike other drivers), so in reality there was little chance of him recouping many of those lost points. How many similar incidents has Alonso had?, hardly any that I seem to recall. It is also pretty well known that Alonso can cope better with a car that is not working well in a race than Massa (and lets be honest, there have been plenty of races where the Ferrari has not worked so well). Yes Nico and Michael have had their own problems to deal with this season also, but had Massa not had so many incidents and bad luck, he'd be even further ahead of them than he is. To say he's done nothing for the team and they'd be better off not running a second car at all is to Me at least, a bit harsh.
Schumi and Massa again? This means Schumi can relax next year. Race with one hand, play angry birds on his cellphone with the other, and still win comfortably over Massa
Here's the question. How many non-WDCs on the grid could outqualify Shoe on a routine basis ? Although a 14-2 record would generally tend to indicate (throughout F1 history, mind you) the better qualifying driver has more potential, it's odd a number of pundits on F-Chat ignore the obvious. I have to assume it is due to a pro-Schumacher bias or an anti-kid of former WDC bias a la Piquet II (even before his impersonation of a moth gently landing on a light bulb). Kubica would have Shoe covered this year given similar equipment (imho) and I rate him higher than Nico without question, but I doubt MacWebba or the rest of the gang would give Shoe much of a problem this year. Vanilla indeed .
It is. This being a Ferrari site, you shouldn't be surprised. In addition I also believe it has something to do with this being primarily a US site. MS has a bigger following in the States than in Europe. Something you realize when you talk to fans/go to races and read the Euro vs US press. I don't believe that. Jacques is not much regarded around here (despite his US racing roots) probably because he was a) fighting against MS and b) a bit of a whiner. Piquet II is a door knob. Always was. Only papa's name and $ got him into F1. Similar story for Senna II although a tad more talent (but not much).
Here's what we know about Nico: He is a great qualifier and most of the time has excellent race pace but lately not enough to keep Schu at bay. I think Schu is just finding his old self more often lately. What other drivers could do in this car or the current drivers in other cars is completely unknown and pretty much irrelevant because we just don't know. But we all know what a fantastic driver can be capable of in a car or even series of cars which does not work well for them. Alonso with Mclaren is a great example. Button with Williams, Benetton, Renault is another. The W02 cascade has been dangled in front of the collective noses at Brackley who want it back rather than it going to the highest bidder as the current owner has made it known he will do if he does not obtain a certain amount for it. I love F1 extortion. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Lol, some guy is really trying to sell a bit of the Benz front wing? As for MS, I think his hater crew are simply getting frustrated that he continues to to hand it to Nico frequently in the races. Who really cares about qualifying? As long as the results come in the end. Everyone who knows anything about F1 realizes that MS has had worse luck than Nico this year and has out-driven him all things considered. Now, you can bring up all the conspiracy theories you want (team orders blah blah BS), but it is what it is. Schu will find his one lap pace again. His race pace fantastic and his starts unparalleled. I just find it funny that people continue to bash on the man rather than respect what he is achieving at his age (which is unbelievable, IMO). Why do you dislike him so much Isobel? Your crush on Nico?
So Nico is ready for the red suit since he has such a great record against MS? Nico has no real record or endorsement as the second coming. MS has no problem with him and neither would Alonso it seems. Nico is just another sorta good/efficient driver. He did not show at Williams a penchant to make a bad car look better than it was. No surprise Ferrari are endorsing Massa again. I have no doubt next year will be his last in any case. Yet we see Ferrari must not feel Nico is a real improvement either. Also if Nico is so easily frustrated he is the last person I want to see at Ferrari as a designated, will not win the title #2. If he thinks MB is bad he has seen nothing if he shows up at Ferrari. As far as those not openly supporting MS his support here around my part of Germany is not very high either. Its interesting but not earth shattering. He is completely over shadowed by Vettel and rightly so. MS is doing what he loves, Im betting in his soul he doesnt see another title coming his way. Im also betting he is quite comfortable with that. His love of racing is what is driving him as much as his love of winning. Nice to see but I wont miss him when he leaves again. I dont miss Kimi either. F1 moves too fast for any of that.
Thanks but your opinions are far more technical and interesting Mine is but another in the chorus of F1 enthusiasm we have here! Hope we have a good race this weekend. Im ready!
Good question - Comments below I don't think she does. As everyone knows, we have a little bet on the outcome this season - She rates Nico higher than I do, but "dislike", not so much (?) Returning to the question - I don't believe any of them could! Further, given the RBR I reckon he'd have wrapped it up earlier than Seb - In that thing he'd out qualify (and race) *all* of 'em IMO, regardless of WDC status. Hopefully Merc will build a decent (say, top two or three) car next season and he'll be back! Cheers, Ian
Interesting, but nothing you said had anything to do with my post so why did you quote me? It's fine if people in Germany can identify with Vettel more and it's obvious that they would (younger generation, guy wins all the time), but there are people on here and in the press that live for deriding MS and his comeback. Even eternal haters like PF1 are warming up to him! Funny how you claim Nico needs some kind of record to be hired to Ferrari. Well, what record did Massa have when he was hired? Huh? Seriously... Nico has proven to be a quick, consistent points scorer who has stacked up very admirably against the most successful F1 driver who has ever lived, comeback or not. Nico is younger than Alonso and if he proves quick enough and stacks up well enough as a #2 to FA (he would, much better than Massa) then who knows, he might be the new #1 once FA retires or leaves or whatever. I'm sure when Kimi came onboard Massa thought he had no chance at being #1 and look how that turned out. If you can bring the results, things happen. Plus, he would get to drive a Ferrari (holy grail) and contend for podiums every race (and that's just with this year's car). He could also count on a fast car virtually every year. Not such a bad gig if you ask me. Better than driving that Benz sled.
Hmm, sorry to spoil your party (and you know how much I dislike Massa) but that's kinda what Massa did before joining Ferrari: He destroyed his team mate who happened to be a WDC. Ok, Villeneuve is no Schumacher, but you can easily see the parallel to Nico: Both beat a WDC at the end of his career. How much that is worth in bragging rights is another question.
Spot on, Ian, no dislike from me. The world of F1 will be lacking and less colourful when he retires a second time. He's already known as an F1 phenom and record holder,....ruthless, skilled, crafty and a machine condition wise. Basically a monster as a team mate on a team where he has long term ties to both Ross and Merc. Yet Van Ice is up on him in both points and quali. I think he'd do exceptionally well at Ferrari....
+1 I hope Nico goes to Ferrari and runs circles around Alonso (though I can't imagine the latter ever happening).
No need to remind me! Coincidentally, there's a poll at formula1.com asking who will finish with more points. As of now; Nico; 38% Schu; 43% Too close to call; 19% [What a cop-out!] You could be right. I suspect we may find out in 2013 *if* he raises his game next year [Beats Michael convincingly]. Thus far he really hasn't proven to me he's a world beater - As has been said, a good, solid, reliable #2. Will he want to play second fiddle to Fred is another question. Cheers, Ian
Does it really matter?? I mean really, he kicked Nico's tail around the track all the second half of the season and the math shows even if Michael finished 10th in the races he DNF in (at least an equal amount of DNFs to Nico) he would be ahead in points. Let's also not forget about the technical problems Michael's car was plagued with at the beginning of the season. Nico had almost none of those problems with KERS and the rear wing
Absolutely it matters! For two good reasons; 1 - First rule of F1 - Beat your teammate. 2 - I've got a case of beer on the outcome I've said before I really admire your unwavering support for the guy! But, if it wasn't the wing it was a front wheel. if it wasn't a front wheel it was rear wheel etc. if, if, if. If Phil hadn't been punted off the track in ~1/3rd races this year he'd be really close to Fred..... Sorry, but if doesn't cut it here IMO. Having said all that, I'm really hoping they can do a good car next year and then I do think he'll genuinely show young Nico the way.... Cheers, Ian
Good man Ian. Yes, but they are not big IFs. haha. The stuff like his KERS and rear wing being constantly broken or malfunctioning the first 1/3 of the season really hurt him. But I certainly understand your purely objective point of view and very much hope Schu brings the pain to his teammates lap times once again for these coming two races. If Nico crashes just once then it's all over for him, and Schu will STILL have one more DNF over Nico.
"Money where the mouth is...." +1 [And that's not just because of my beer. ] More importantly IMO is setting the stage for next year. He would go into the season as the #1 - We know Nico's the highest paid non WDC in the field, but even "his people" (dad?) couldn't argue that the Schu is the main man....... I can't start to describe how I'd feel if he should win a race or two early next year! And if it's going well, he'll be back in '13 too!..... Maybe some of the young'uns will also be able to witness his greatness. Cheers, Ian
