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No clutch, fluid everywhere - 355

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by jakermc, Mar 16, 2004.

  1. jakermc

    jakermc Formula 3
    Owner

    Jan 17, 2004
    1,778
    Palm Beach, FL
    Full Name:
    Rob
    Just three weeks into F-car ownership I have my first issue. Driving home from work everything seemed fine for the first 8 miles or so. About 5 miles from the house I am coming to a stoplight and engage the clutch to put the car into neutral. The pedal (6-speed manual) went soft and it felt like it stuck to the floor. It did spring back up, but all presure was gone. There was virtually no resistence when I pushed the pedal in. The car would not engage into any gear so I had to be towed back to the house.

    When the tow truck arrived I got out and saw what I expected, fluid all over the ground under the transmission housing. What are the likely causes for this to happen? I've been fairly handy with my P-cars, but haven't learned a thing about the 355 yet. Where do I start?
     
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  3. henryk

    henryk Formula Junior

    Dec 9, 2003
    479
    Door County, WI
    You probably have a hydraulic clutch, and a seal broke in the slave cylinder...causing no clutch, and fluid all over.
     
  4. richard_wallace

    richard_wallace Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 6, 2004
    1,951
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Full Name:
    Richard Wallace
    well - this could be expensive. As mentioned it could be just the Slave Seal - causing your problem. I would take a good look at the whole thing - if you are doing it yourself - take a look at the plate wear - if it is getting down to the .06 mm or below - .03 is minimum wear - I would go ahead and replace the Master and Slave. If it is just the Slave Seal - you can get a Slave Seal Kit from many suppliers (I think Sodacoms - one of our Suppliers in the Sponsors Section:) might have them - if it is the whole thing - be prepared to (I believe) pay 2K for Master/Slave/Kit for new - rebuild/exchange about 1/2 that.

    Others that know more will also chime in...
     
  5. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    21,527
    socal
    Just trace back the leak. Put some junk fluid in and see where it squirts when you push in the clutch. You can have a cracked line, open bleeder, leak into the gearbox (if the 355 has the internal passages like the 348, bad slave seal. It is really no big deal. If you take it in it will be $. If you do it yourself it could be pennies. Break out the wrenches and have at it! It is just a car.
     
  6. vref

    vref Karting

    Dec 18, 2003
    214
    1 Hr North of Housto
    Full Name:
    Jim
    I would also say slave cylinder. 355's are known for this.
     
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  8. ShanB

    ShanB Formula Junior

    Jul 9, 2003
    547
    Tejas/Europe/Desert
    Full Name:
    shanb
    Jakermc:
    the clutch slave cylinder seal is one of the usual suspects, but as billybob points out there are other possible issues - all of which are fixable. The F355 is similar to the 348 in that regard. Check the archives for the clutch/flywheel rebuild pics I posted a few months ago to get a feel for how it is set up. If you have the tools and time, this is an easy fix to do in your own garage. Time to break out the wrenches and if you can, please post pics.
     
  9. jakermc

    jakermc Formula 3
    Owner

    Jan 17, 2004
    1,778
    Palm Beach, FL
    Full Name:
    Rob
    I do have the tools, as I have done a fair amount of work on my '83 911. Unfortunately, the clutch is not one of the items I have tackled yet. I'd describe myself as someone who is handy and can follow directions, but not the kind of mechanic that is good at looking at a problem and giving a diagnosis or creatively finding a solution. With a step-by-step guide, I do pretty well though.

    I have the service manual and I'll do a seach as suggested to see if the job makes sense to me. Unfortunately, finding the time is also a factor. I had planned on replacing the fuel pump on the 911 this weekend so now I have two cars that need attention.

    Thanks for the help. If anyone has any links with good pictures or instructions, please let me know.

    Shan - where in Texas are you? Anywhere near Plano/DFW area?
     
  10. ninja_eli

    ninja_eli Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    71
    London
    Full Name:
    Ali
    Note it could be the clutch release bearing. Mine did the same thing, and I had to drive the thing back with very well timed clutchless changes.

    While you are doing it, check the wear of your clutch and change if necessary.

    I watched the dealer resolve this for me, and basically it doesnt look that big a job, he did it during several hours. Back bumper, exhaust etc must come off.

    Good luck
     
  11. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    7,940
    Do not put in junk fluid, the F355 uses the same resorvoir for clutch and brakes. If you put in junk fluid, you will be reducing the effectivity of your brakes unless you do a complete flush (also recommended) after you get the cluthc problem fixed.

    There is an upgraded slave cylinder used in the F1 transmission cars. The replacement has lower friction then the original, and thereby, nicer action and feel.
     
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  13. ShanB

    ShanB Formula Junior

    Jul 9, 2003
    547
    Tejas/Europe/Desert
    Full Name:
    shanb
    I'm in the San Antonio/Austin area.
     
  14. Mine has a slow leak...3-4 drips a night. I was told it's the clutch slave cylinder. Should I replace the whole thing or just a seal? If anyone has a part number it would be appreciated.
     
  15. vref

    vref Karting

    Dec 18, 2003
    214
    1 Hr North of Housto
    Full Name:
    Jim
    Which part number do you want?
     
  16. I forgot to mention I have the standard 6-spd gearbox....if that helps. Is there a common seal that leaks or could it be any of the other hundred gaskets?
     
  17. vref

    vref Karting

    Dec 18, 2003
    214
    1 Hr North of Housto
    Full Name:
    Jim
    Your not going to know till you take it apart. The diagrahm show f1 in the top portion and the 6 speed is below it.
     
  18. jakermc

    jakermc Formula 3
    Owner

    Jan 17, 2004
    1,778
    Palm Beach, FL
    Full Name:
    Rob
    I decided to bite the bullet and take it to Norwood's tomorrow. The job looks easy enough, but very time consuming, especially for a first timer. Unfortunately my work schedule right now might not allow me to get to it for a little while. That would be bad. I can't go that long without seat time. :)
     
  19. vref

    vref Karting

    Dec 18, 2003
    214
    1 Hr North of Housto
    Full Name:
    Jim
    let us know what you find out.
     
  20. jakermc

    jakermc Formula 3
    Owner

    Jan 17, 2004
    1,778
    Palm Beach, FL
    Full Name:
    Rob
    Got the diagnosis from Norwood - in addition to the slave seal, the TO bearing is toast. When I asked what causes the failure their response was "Ferrari makes it". Its an $1100 part so the final bill will be $2100. My introduction to Ferrari ownership is now complete. It's still worth it. :) Now if I can only time my auto related failures to coincide with my slower periods at work so I can do the job myself....
     
  21. richard_wallace

    richard_wallace Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 6, 2004
    1,951
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Full Name:
    Richard Wallace
    Well - you must always look at it like this... Now that the clutch is/will be fixed - that is one less thing you have to worry about for a while..

    I just had mine done while I had my Engine Out - an by the time I replaced the Clutch, Rear Shocks, Plug Wires, Belts, Hoses, Fixed the AC, etc. I am at around 8K - which is actually not bad for everything I had done... but while the car always takes my breath away... The repairs bring you back down to earth...

    Enjoy your F-Car - and even though they appear fragile - they are not - drive it hard and have fun - if it breaks, fix it - but don't baby it - you bought it for the fun!

    Rich
     

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