No crank after manual swap | FerrariChat

No crank after manual swap

Discussion in '360/430' started by imahorse, May 19, 2023.

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  1. imahorse

    imahorse F1 Rookie
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    Hey guys, I've been chasing this problem on my 2000 360 for a bit now and could really use a hand. I am stocked up on food, cigars, and alcohol and will have most of the weekend to work on sorting this out and would like some additional ideas to try. For the past year and a half I pieced together/fabricated a manual conversion. When that was complete, I attempted to start the car and I got a no crank condition. Just silence. 360trev has been really helpful as we went through this and we tried multiple ecu flashes to make sure that is not the problem. As of now, the immobilizer is completely bypassed. The puzzling part is I really didn't do much with wiring. I know the car won't start as F1 if it doesn't register that the system is pressurized. I figured pulling the system and the TCU would bypass this with the manual ECU flash. Am I missing something? I'm led to believe that the no crank and no fuel pressure issue is connected.

    Here is what I know:
    - The brake switch is working
    - The gas pedal and throttle bodies are working
    - There is no fuel pressure
    - Sometimes the check ok will illuminate on the dash, sometimes it won't
    - There are no error codes in the ecus
    - Everything in the swap appears to be working
    - I checked almost all of the fuses and they are good
    - I swapped the starter relay with a different relay
    - The inertia switch is in place
    - The clutch engages and disengages properly according to the diagnostic tool
    - The rear grill and bumper are removed
    - There was an issue where the decklid wouldn't register as closed on the cluster screen, but it appears to be working now
    - I did not remove the F1 wiring harness, just the components
    - I broke a small ground on the top rear of the engine. I soldered and heatshrunk a new one in
    - The acceleration sensors got a little banged up as I forgot to remove them before attempting to pull the transmission

    Things I did since the car last ran:
    - Pulled the transmission to reseal the TOB for the swap
    - Removed the front bumper to put in challenge grills
    - Disassembled steering column to put in gated column trim and remove paddles
    - Install a cat back exhaust
    - Remove a couple extra speakers from the fast and furious stereo install



    Things to try:
    -Testing fuel pump with diagnostic tool if possible
    -Different battery
    -Checking the few fuses I haven't
    -Changing important fuses regardless of how they look
    -Break down in a drunken sobbing mess and plead with it
    -Double check brake switch
    -Sacrifice small animals to old pagan gods in hopes the car runs again
    -Reinstall F1 power unit
    -Check for power from starter

    Anything else I should add to my list?
     
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  2. GogglesPisano

    GogglesPisano F1 Rookie
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    Any chance that the immobilizer in the key needs to be re-paired with the system or something related?
     
  3. imahorse

    imahorse F1 Rookie
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    Immobilizer was the initial suspect and is completely bypassed
     
  4. brogenville

    brogenville Formula 3
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    Ground out pin 42 on the big tcu connector.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
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  5. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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  6. imahorse

    imahorse F1 Rookie
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    Thanks guys! I'll give that a shot in a few hours here
     
  7. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Did you use a jumper plug on this connector as part of the mod?

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    (behind the driver)

    Normally the connector (held in Mr @Toonfosi 's hand) goes to the F1 TCU, but the short white wire jumper (installed as shown) bypasses the TCU and goes straight to the starter relay.

    OEM gated cars have this jumper.
     
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  8. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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  9. imahorse

    imahorse F1 Rookie
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    I did not. I did nothing with bypassing the TCU. Will jumping that connection have the same effect as grounding pin #42 on the large TCU harness?
     
  10. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Sorry for the delay... had to check.... YES.
     
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  11. imahorse

    imahorse F1 Rookie
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    No worries on the delay! I'm still at work anxiously awaiting going home and trying to start my car! [emoji28]
     
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  12. Parari

    Parari Rookie

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  13. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    #13 Qavion, May 19, 2023
    Last edited: May 19, 2023
    Thanks for the reminder, @Parari

    The F1 has a 4 pin plug. The manual car has a two pin plug. You have to short out the middle 2 wires. i.e. pins 2 & 3.

    Buying a manual car jumper wouldn't have helped.
     
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  14. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Dang..... Hold your horses.... You said you had the immobiliser delete. That jumper is only used if you still have a functioning immobiliser.

    Recomputing....
     
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  15. imahorse

    imahorse F1 Rookie
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    Well ****


    I'll still try it anyways.
     
  16. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    #16 Qavion, May 19, 2023
    Last edited: May 19, 2023
    You can disconnect the jumper plug and short pin 2 to earth.

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    Don't loop the wire, just connect pin 2 to earth. i.e. the grey wire on the fixed, bottom half of the plug.

    An earth/ground on that grey wire provides an earth for the starter relay coil. All the starter relay coil then needs is power from the ignition switch (when you turn the key to start).

    This technique has been used before on FCars. Don't think it's "experimental".

    If you have an OEM charger, be sure to disconnect that before trying to start the car.
     
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  17. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Specifically, on manual conversions, I mean.
     
  18. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    The chance of success would depend on how much of your immobiliser system has been deleted :p
     
  19. imahorse

    imahorse F1 Rookie
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    Much appreciated! At this point I'll try just about anything lol.
     
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  20. imahorse

    imahorse F1 Rookie
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  21. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    YAY

    Did the loop method work or did you just ground out pin 2?
     
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  22. imahorse

    imahorse F1 Rookie
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    I grounded out pin #2!
     
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  23. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Actually, after rechecking, both the F1 and 6-speed cars have 4 pin plugs. I thought one plug looked bigger in the photos, but they are the same size.

    I wonder if there is a part number for the OEM jumper plug.
     
  24. imahorse

    imahorse F1 Rookie
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    It's easy enough to make one. I made a wire for it in 5 minutes. I'll create a better solution in the near future. Thanks again. I am beyond ecstatic the car is running again after a year and a half. Everything else worked perfectly.
     
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  25. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    #25 Qavion, May 19, 2023
    Last edited: May 19, 2023
    Creating a jumper plug/ground wire at that point is probably a bit neater than adding an earth to the F1 TCU plug.

    I believe this TE Connectivity Multilock plug might do the job...

    https://il.rsdelivers.com/product/te-connectivity/174922-1/te-connectivity-multilock-070-male-connector-35mm/1639419

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    I made up a roof bypass harness for F355's using a 6 pin version of this plug.

    You'll need some sockets (?) to go with this. Anyway, whatever contacts are on the plug half with the clip on it (OEM two wire half).

    https://il.rsdelivers.com/product/te-connectivity/175027-6/te-connectivity-multilock-070-female-crimp-16awg-6/7122188

    You only need one socket, but you might have problems buying just one. I think Element 14 in the UK might sell you one... but it's probably best if you have some to practice with crimping these. Note: Postage prices are crazy at RS Components (I've found)

    and you'll need some good crimping/wire stripping tools.
     
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