My dealer called me to see if I wanted to order and make a deposit for the 458. I think the car is awesome in its lines. I asked the dealer what the MSRP is and can I get the car with a manual transmission. He told me that ferrari has not released that information to the Dealers yet. I fear it will be paddle shifters only. It will be year end before they know. I have owned both types of transmissions. A 6 speed manual in my 360 and a paddle system in my F430. I have seriously thought about going back to the dealer and buying the used F430 with the manual that is in his floor. Lee
Lee, Ryan- Many people feel the same way. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=255640 Taz Terry Phillips
So the dealer isnt really taking your order, just your place in line to order? I wonder if the dealers are testing the consumer base to see how many buyers there will be. Tony........
Tony I cannot be sure but I think he was looking for a firm order. He asked for $50k as a deposit. After I asked the two questions, i.e. MSRP and manual he groaned. I have since called him (yesterday 10/26/2009) and he reconfirmed he would not know untill year end. I consider this salesman a freind and the dealership as good people. Someone else comented that "no more manuals bad idea" I agree. If I can get a manual I will jump if not it is a no go for me. Lee
Yeah, all the posts point toward no gated shifter.... As for the order, he can't really take an order without specs on the car.. He wants the 50k to secure your place so when he can place the real order you'll already be in the Q. ? At least that is what I am understanding... I better get back from my travels and get to the dealer and see if I can do similar.... I personally want paddles so I wouldn't mind giving the money to get in line.... Tony..........
Lee- Likely no 458 for you, then. Too expensive for Ferrari to do on a car designed around the dual clutch transmission, especially considering the small number who want a manual transmission. Unless a miracle happens. I do not think most Ferrari drivers want a hokey sequential shift lever, like the Nissan GT-R, when the paddles are so much more efficient. No third pedal, at any rate. Better off to order a 599. Even the HGTEs are available with a manual shifter on the same transmission the F1 cars use. May be the last three pedal Ferrari. Taz Terry Phillips
You are incorrect about Nissan's GT-R. The GT-R not only outperforms/destroys most Ferraris on a GT course, but it uses a DSG with paddles.
VH- The GT-R has a shift lever and paddle switches, either of which can sequentially select gears. Just like most of the newer automatics have a slot for the shift lever so you can move the lever forward and aft to change gears. Go look it up, I did. Everybody knows it has a 6 speed DSG. When we want a massively understeering, heavy, ugly, four wheel drive car made in Japan, we will give you a call. Taz Terry Phillips
The GT-R didn't outperform my Ferrari on the track (click icon to the left to see larger picture). I loved getting the point-by with a guy who's license plate was "GODZILA" His understeer made him slow down so the GT-R could "refocus" Classic.
VH, Tony- Amen to that. Kind of heavy-handed on my part. Remind me to tell you why I will never own another Japanese car. Has to do with Desert Shield/Storm and my 196 days there flying F-111Fs. Bed-time now. Taz Terry Phillips
Its all good Terry, I personally don't care about the GTR either, and agree with you. I am just impressed with the response from VH.
I just had a heck of a time finding a 6-speed 360...passed up literally 100's of F1s basically ignoring them while looking. Granted, I'm a used ferrari buyer (will be 3rd owner) so Ferrari could care less about someone like me, but still there are others out there buying these cars new that feel the same way. To not have a manual option is a mistake (remember when the V10 M5 came out and BMW had to give in and send us a stick version?)- I'm wondering if by the second model year they manage to get a stick in there somehow.... I was lucky enough to drive a 599 with F1 and the F1 technology is very much refined over the 355 generation and 360 generation and is actually pretty amazing (thus I can't blame some or even most people for wanting it), but there should be a stick for the old schoolers....
after much seat time in both the smg & stick m5, i would have to agree w/ most people out there that the engine was designed around the smg. Hate to admit it, but the 6spd doesnt "feel" right, hence I kept my e39 M5. i could see in the future Ferrari offering a gate. Just like when the soup Nazi told George in "Seinfeld"- "You want a stick?! $10,000!"
You and I are both old-schoolers- I'm so old school I'm keeping my e39 540 6-speed because I don't like the newer 5 series...only car I'd sell it for is e39 M5, but that temptation was removed the moment I wired in the money for the 360 just 2 days ago- (i.e. car budget is depleted-ha!) Sorry to change the thread topic with the bmw talk guys- back on topic, I think 458 may have a stick as early as late 2011 models, an uneducated un-informed gut based guess...
Andrew- Technically very difficult. Would require a completely new transmission or retrofitting an old one. Probably unaffordable for Ferrari, who would never sell enough manual 458s to justify the cost. This is not like Porsche or BMW, who essentially already have suitable off the shelf six speeds for all their cars. The 458 was designed around the very small volume and weight of the 7 speed dual clutch transmission. On the others, DSG is just another option. Taz Terry Phillips
You mention retrofitting an older one- that sounds like a good option since the 430 6-speed tranny must be pretty robust (maybe just beef it up a little more)? If they could do some "minor modifications", there wouldn't be any sort of electrical/computer cost because it doesn't require any logic like the F1 does...just fitting it in there. Of course the obvious question is what "minor modifications" would be required....I guess my point is they do have an excellent 6-speed box already in existance, not like they need to re-invent anything (like they did when they first developed the F1 box)
Andrew- That is a major modification since you would have to add both the transaxle and clutch from the f430. These take up considerably more space than the DSG, which has compact wet clutch packs incorporated. Not an easy thing to do unless the original design was made with such a system in mind. Also remember the 458 and California are the first IRS street Ferraris without A/H arm rear suspension. They both have a multi-link set-up instead. This may also affect how difficult it would be to change from the DSG to a manual transmission. Good luck to all who want a manual transmission. Make enough noise to the dealer network, FNA, and Ferrari and see what happens. Nothing is impossible. Taz Terry Phillips
I'm a stick guy myself, but I agree with Taz on this. From a business standpoint, I don't see how it makes sense for Ferrari to continue to offer a stick shift. Only 10-15% of 430's were ordered with sticks. I am proud to say I am one, however, the percentage would likely drop a lot when the choice becomes 7 speed paddles or 6 speed stick. Perhaps more importantly, the development costs would be higher than in the 430 with far fewer units to amortize the cost. Whereas sticks in the 430 cost about 12K less than the F1's, a stick in the 458 might have to be the same price or maybe even more than the paddle cars further depressing sales. I also speculate that a 6 speed stick would have to be independently certified by the EPA and with one less gear, the mileage would probably be lower resulting in higher gas guzzler taxes to boot. When I was on the 430 list, I sweated out whether or not that car would be available with a stick, so it's no surprise to me that the 458 will not. As a result, I've purchased my last new Ferrari. I'm sure Ferrari can live without me and I'll find some way to muddle through myself. Dave
