Well that's the inference, and sometimes outright statement, that keeps coming time and time again from the stick guys. It's not my "ridiculous conclusion", just read through this and the other no more manual thread.
Please relax. This isn't a dig at anyone. I actually own both auto's and manual's. The bigger picture is the migration from analogue systems of control to digital how how is that going to impact our long term enjoyment of our cars. The slow burning transition from analogue system to digital has been happening for a long time; > Carbs to fuel injection > Brakes to servo assistance & abs > Steering to servo assistance > Throttle cable to drive by wire potentiometers. BMW's already trialing digital steering. The point I'm raising is one of 'performance' vs 'involvement'. -T
And that's the real point. I am relaxed. It's the stick guys who (understandably) are getting their knickers in a twist.
Agree with you on this. BUT I found F1 Superfast 1 on the 599 when it first came out to be mind blowingly fun on the road. BUT I found F1 Superfast 2 on the Scuderia when it first came out to be mindblowingly fun on the road. AND HER IS THE BIG BUT when the novelty wore off, as it inevitably does with technology, I never get tired of the incredible mechanicalness of my 993 RS (a more user friendly road weapon than other mechanical occasional use cars that i have in my little stable). That being said, I am counting the days until my 458 arrives and I am sure that I will just love it...until the next iteration is on the horizon. My take is to enjoy the latest technology, which will never be manual again, and stay current. Advances in electronics are at a blinding rate - there has never been a more exciting time to buy new cars. The traction control on the Scuderia left me speechless. I race. I know all about proper technique - progressive acceleration from apex to exit exploring the limits of grip at the back while unlocking. When I was lapping Fiorano with Dario and he said watch my feet, I am going flat at apex and the traction control will take over, every nerve in my body was saying "unhappy ending, unhappy ending" but it worked. I loved using it on the roads coming out of slow corners and exiting like a rocket. The cars that I keep for a long time are all mechanical - or as you aptly say "analogue"
And as you'll read elsewhere in this thread, I'm much saddened by the loss of the manual shifter. But if you read the exchange you're responding to you'll also see that I'm simply responding to yet another denigrating post from a stick guy towards those who prefer paddles, the general thrust being that if you like paddled then, obviously, you're not a real driver.
Weber carburators were part of their heritage. Solely making V12 engines for their cars were part of their heritage. If you want heritage, buy something old. If you want what this brand stands for -- using race technology to go faster and better -- buy something new. No one is making manuals illegal.
Not yet! In the UK the cost of paying 'road tax' per year has increased for manual cars!!! The reason? Its down to the way they rate CO2 on manual's vs automatics. On an automatic car the manufacturer is free to choose the ratio's for gears, on manual cars the testing is done on a fixed set of ratio's that only favours small engined cars of a certain speed/torque. If you deviate away by having more power/torque it makes your CO2 emissions look dreadful (especially compared to your auto/f1 boxes which can use the ratio's that make sense) so the emissions look better!
+1 That is the point, you posted it perfectly! The person who posted the excited note must be a young child who cannot drive yet anyway. At least his writing and personal profile points in that direction. Lee
It's you loyal Ferrari 'tifosi' that have continually fawned over the company's heritage !! THAT was my point ! lol.
So 360trev, this kind of stuff isn't being said in this thread and it's just me jumping to ridiculous conclusions? As I was saying, there are certain among the stick guys who see this as ****** waving contest.
I have to say bdelp's statement is in my mind the one that should put this whole issue to end. Personally I am a manual guy and even my wife after 5 years of marriage is convinced manual transmissions are more fun! HOWEVER, Ferrari cannot sit back and dream of yesterday, they have to keep moving forward. You can imagine the guys back in the 60's reminiscing about how easy it was to change gears compared to 'when they first started driving' and how back then to win a race one had to really know how to brake without the back end coming undone or ensuring the tappets were just right before each race or some other crap we have all forgotten about. Even my old man was telling me about how back when he was a lad, a man could drive without power assistance and how that technology has taken away from the driving reading the chasis, not to mention synchromesh and xenon lights - yes, I even read one looser saying how to really focus on the road the old lights were much better - you could not see as much and it made you more aware of what might be around the corner - please - give me a break - if you hate technology that much get on your square wheeled bike and hop it old man is what I say. The point is where do you draw the line? For some of us, its the 6 speed / 3 pedal thing - for others, airconditioning and electric seats are just too much, for others any mention of an interior where the welds cannot be seen is just not quite 'real' enough. Ferrari is setting the trend once again. Porsche have joined with the PDK. They aim to have 80% of their car sales with the PDK transmission. However Porsche is still a bit more old school and certain cars, GT3, GT2 etc will always be available with 3 pedals. The cars of today are going to be 'our' classics gentlemen! Buy them while they are cheap! Personally, I will buy 2009 430 (the latest production I can get) make it a bit of a garage queen and sell it in 30 years time as the last of the manual Ferrari's : ) For what it's worth the only products I own which I think are great even though incredibly old are my guitars, in fact most of my collection is from the 50's and 60's. I am even eyeing up a lovely 1920's Gibson at the moment. Imagine commuting in a car from the 20's - that would be killer I am sure! Rant over, I am now checking out used car sales!
Exactly. However... Their abandonment of the stick has nothing to do with moving forward. It's simply a commercial decision. If it were just about moving forward they could continue to embrace and innovate the latest technologies while still offering the manual option, making it a cost option.
What the heck are you talking about? To me, I've given you the heritage of Ferrari... build amazing street cars based on racing technology. I don't care if it has a cup holder in the cabin. I don't care if it has an ipod connection or GPS. As long as the heart of the car is based on racing and performance, I'm happy. I'm happy because that, to me, is what a Ferrari is.
Exactly. I agree with this. My daily driver Audi has DSG, sat nav, ABS, traction control, stability control, auto climate control, etc etc. It's a disposable, modern car loaded with computers. Is it as involving as something like a 246 GTS? No, but it's a remarkably capable car and enjoyable in its own clinical sort of way. The beauty of the sports car market is that the older cars are fun, look better and cost less, so if you want to experience the full fury of the engine and the road you can get something really cool like a Boxer, 246, 308, etc. If you want to go extremely fast safely, and in comfort and relatively economically, there's always the current model year cars. As an enthusiast of the older models (love the Daytona, 246, 308/328, etc.), frankly I think it's fine that the 458 is going in a different direction. Even with a manual gearbox, modern cars simply cannot deliver the same experience you get in something classic or vintage. The performance envelope is too high; safety standards are vastly higher; vehicle sizes are much larger; emissions control is a fact of life; handmade cars are a thing of the past; and so on. The whole magic of the '50s, '60s and early '70s is just gone, but modern cars do almost everything better. I say accept them on their own terms, and let's quit pretending that a gated shifter in a 458 or F430 is a substitute for an F40, Daytona or other classic Ferraris. Because it ain't.
O.K., I see. You will NOT be checking the order boxes for Ipod, GPS, clear engine bonnet, etc. Will you ?
No GPS for sure. I think I would rather have a sextant and a book of tables than the Ferrari NAV system
Sure I will. Do you not read what I write? Geez Enzo's dead. Get over it. The world moves on. The spririt of what he created is bigger than what kind of gearbox is in the car or it it has cup holders and good stereos. If Ferrari didn't do it, everyone would be looking at the McLaren and Audi/Lambo and saying how behind the times Ferrari has fallen. I don't see the problem. His legacy in the auto business and the brand he created is bigger than some stupid gearbox.
More importantly check out this great vid - http://www.evo.co.uk/videos/planetevovideos/244516/ferrari_458_road.html
Very well said. Driver involvement is why I desire a bare bones sports car. When I want detachment from noise and effort, I will get into my plush sedan.
Chad- A sextant port in a 458 would definitely be a one-off. Let me know if you need training on the sextant. Have to admit it has been a while since I used one. 1973, I think, in a T-29C Taz Terry Phillips
I might take you up on that I love Ferrari but the NAV system is not worth ticking the box on the order. And, if you need a NAV system, you're probably driving the wrong car that day.
The worst thing about this car is that u will see LOTS of women driving them. NEVER saw a lady drive a countach when they were new. its got a good name though 458 ''ITALIA''
Paolo- Affirmative, but at least you know they are rich, or a rich man's friend or relative. Bad news is they can outshift you, even with the bloody thing in Auto mode. No telling what happens at a corner or curve, however. Chad- Even the radio is turned off in my car. I can imagine how poor the OEM 575M nav system must have been on that teeny screen. Mine did not have it (or much else, now that I think about it). Taz terry Phillips
