no more emmissions on my 85 QV...

Regulations WILL get worse in the future and the car is worth more stock. In addition nothing on the car that can be removed will improve its performance so you might consider leaving it alone. If you want more than just a small handful of additional HP you really need to either go to an electronic engine management system or carburettors with higher compression and more aggressive cams. The other option is to supercharge it.

 

Another option is to remove all of it and sell it to us Californians who's cars will NEVER be exempt from smog certs.

 

There is a bill in the Colorado house that will likely pass that brings back emissions testing on the older cars and requires the rolling road test.

For those that think this wont be repealed over time...save the parts that come off! Its coming back with a vengance, that you can bet on. New cars only spend for one test and they are through the process, old cars pay for multiple tests to squeek through....follow the money, its a no brainer!

If we cant drill for oil you can bet we will be expected to make these cars run on processed Worm **** that over time will be found to melt aluminum and is not flammable above 50 ft in altitude..... I expect to see some real challenges in the near future.

 

Yes, the whole country will eventually follow suit as well. It's win-win for the politicians ---- the government gets more revenues, and the do-gooders get to feel like they've actually done something.

However, hopefully some states will follow Oregon's model... While requiring emissions certs on the older cars, they also created the "SP" (Special Purpose) registration classification which grants emissions exemption status for certain cars (collector, antique, exotics, etc.) when they meet the state DOT guidelines on status and usage. This was a brilliant idea because it accomplished what it needed to do ----- got all the POS oil-burners off the roads, but didn't penalize the people who drive their sports cars all of 250 miles a year.

Why California never enacted a similar policy has always been a mystery to me ---- but then as we all know, that state is full of "crazy people" --- LOL!

 

Incidentally, my '81 US spec 308 has no emissions equipment (not even cats) on it and hasn't for a long time, and I still was able to get through smog tests in Portland, Oregon and Boulder, Colorado. You just need to make sure the car is fully warmed up, and "tweak" the mixture setting a bit before and after testing (or so I've heard... I'm not admitting that I've actually done such a thing ).

As for the visual inspection, I guess I've always relied on the ignorance / incompetence of the techs at the DEQ ---- most of them have never seen a Ferrari before, so they don't know what the engine compartment is supposed to look like . But, how I managed to "pass" (8) times with NO CATS on the car is a real testament to these knuckleheads ---- most times they never even looked under the car, and when they did, how they missed it ---- I'll never understand!

The only time the car ever failed testing was in Portland after I had installed the wide-open Borla exhaust system. And, it didn't fail on gases ---- it failed on noise allowance!!!

So, it was down to the courthouse to fill out the application, and back home to bolt on the "SP" plates ---- never to sit in line at the DEQ again!

 

Frankly, I don't object to the emissions requirements, as long as they don't ever require a car to do better than its original requirements for whatever year. So as long as my 89 only has to meet it's 89 specs, I don't care. But it does make me sad that the 928 Motorsports SC package is no longer available since SC (or Nitrous) had no bad effect on emissions testing! As noted, removing the emissions stuff is not going to do anything noticeable powerwise anyway.

I would not want my car registered in some way that limits mileage to some insanely low number. 5000 miles/year would be ok but less than that or any of the "back and forth to events only" restrictions are not acceptable to me. This year the car qualifies for "historic vehicle" in MD which means it does not have to be inspected but I have no intention to change it's licensing from its current "normal" registration.

 

Oh, but you will when the DEQ forces you to re-build your engine!

Because when your engine starts to get some mileage on it, and valve seals and guides begin to leak a bit, and the rings are beginning to allow a bit a blow-by, your car will still be running fine ----- you won't really be ready for that re-build for many more miles, but you won't be passing the emission test without it .

 

Wow, this is all disturbing to me! I recently purchased a Euro Mondial QV with no emissions equipment. I bought the car because it is beyond the age requirement for emissions testing in Texas. If Texas adopted a law similar to the one being discussed in Colorado, then my car pretty much instantly turns into a parts car. It will be unsellable (in Texas, at least), and may not be worth spending the money to bring the car into emissions compliance. There will always be some rogue states (until the Feds step in), so maybe I could sell the car to someone in Florida. Prices will plummet, however, as everyone in my situation will also be dumping their cars in Florida.

 

You might want to consider removing the cat. It's the source of fires when one bank of cylinder's ignition fails and they dump raw fuel into the exhaust system. I've also been told the only difference between the 328 Euro HP rating of 270 and the US rating of 260 is the cat. In addition cats don't last forever. If you continue to use it, it may no longer be functional if emission testing returns. You'll then have a nice bill for a replacement. I would take it off and save it. You'll increase safety, power and exhaust sound along with the possiblity of saving money.

 

"Because when your engine starts to get some mileage on it, and valve seals and guides begin to leak a bit, and the rings are beginning to allow a bit a blow-by, your car will still be running fine -----"

Well, I'd argue that if the engine has deteriorated sufficiently to not meet it's emissions specs due to valve guide wear and blowby, then it needs that rebuild anyway...

On the other hand, I had a 1986 Dodge Daytona turbo that I bought new and sold in 2006. It had 202,000 miles in 06 and was still passing the required NY emissions testing; it had never been rebuilt so I'd like to hope a Ferrari could at least match half that!

 

"I've also been told the only difference between the 328 Euro HP rating of 270 and the US rating of 260 is the cat."

The service manual pics I have seen show that the euro car has a separate exhaust outlet from each header to the mufflers; the US version has both headers feeding into a single common pipe to the cat. IF the exhaust system is actually the reason for the 10HP difference, it is this configuration, and possibly the header design itself, that is causing it, NOT the cat. Any Cat made since at least the early 80's does not restrict flow. Taking it off for some other reason - weight, heat, sound, whatever, is valid but taking it off thinking there will be a power increase is not.

 

IMO,

I had a 1985 QV,

Build a custom exhaust with magnaflow mufflers and New High Flow cats..... (Jegs or Summit Racing parts)
Change nothing else, , , your car will get the 10 HP and sound better.


(There is really is Not that much Smog Equipment on that car to begin with.)

Edwardo

 

Not sure what is going to happen with emissions really. It seems to be only a blue state issue. Many other states have done away with emission requirements for vehicles without OBD sensors. This legislation has been in the past couple years so it's not by any means old law.

 

I took off cats, original exhaust, smog pump, replaced cats w/small mufflers and exhaust w/tubi, all done along with professional major.

Runs great, sound great.

Everything original's boxed up for next owner.

 

Scott,

That is correct for an 83,,,

but an 85;
has a lambda system that really works, ,, don't want to run lean.
has no smog pump, , , ,just a "Pulsed Air Injection System" that operates only for a few minutes upon start up.


Edwardo

 

To Brian's point: if you're looking for more power, removing emissions equipment isn't really the answer.

I personally don't understand the motivation of individuals in every car/truck/motorcycle forum I participate in to remove the cats from their vehicles. The gains are negligible, but the pollution factor increases exponentially. Pollution control systems were introduced to help reduce smog and other crap you probably don't want in your or your kid's lungs (especially noticeable here in the Los Angeles Basin) so why mess with it? For once, it's regulation that makes sense, at least to me.

Tune your car, change the air filter, gap your plugs, switch to synthetics-> all of this combined will result in a better running car than simply taking out the cat(s), I promise.

Cheers,

-w-

 

The whole emissions testing thing is a crazy-quilt patchwork across the whole country.

Up until July 2008, Wisconsin required emissions testing for all cars 1968 and newer (although cars 20 years old and older could be exempted if they were registered as a collector car and subjet to a very minor driving restriction - no driving in January, which is not hard to do in WI). Pre-OBDII cars were subject to chassis dyno testing and visual inspection.

After January 2008, the law was changed so that only OBDII-compliant vehicles are required to be tested.

If you live in WI and you are paranoid and think they might bring back testing for older cars, you can always register your 20 year old car as a collector car and be permanently exempt.

 

Also, you'll never be able to sell an emissions-stripped 308 in California.

I would leave your 308 as is, and get a modern performance car to go alongside it. Preserve the car.

 

I am all about keeping your car regardless of the brand running well. Cars that smoke excessively or are just not safe to have on the road are undoubtedly a danger. Some sort of safety check should be performed on vehicles because I realise not everyone is like many on this forum who insist on keeping whatever they have running correctly. My problem is with how the package was wrapped up and sold to the public.

Global climate change hardly has anything to do with mankind, and anything mankind does short of all-out global nuclear war is not going to change what this planet has been doing for billions of years on its own. Saying otherwise is nothing more than bad science and sharp blue political rhetoric.

 

Forget global warming. Auto emission equipment has improved the air and most but the very early stuff is not hurting the performance.

 

What do you guys think of my 87 euro 328. Bill Pollard is thinking about removing the evap container, O2 sensor, and other electronics associated with it but leaving on the air pump and the cats to pass emissions. He says since it was done so poorly, it may have an associated reliability issue down the road.

Not to tread-jack....

Ace

 

The 02 sensor affects the Kjet meetering; if you remove the sensor, something has to be done to the Kjet "correct" that. Not saying it can't be done but the person doing it would have to know what he is doing otherwise the car won't run as well as it is supposed to. Would it pass emissions with the 02 sensor disconnected?

I realize all states are different but in MD, to pass a state mechanical inspection, all the equipment that was oem on the car MUST be on the car and working. They really DO check this stuff. In fact, the inspection is so thorough, it could almost be a PPI - took over an hour on my 328 and they found two things that the PPI hadn't! The battery was not clamped down and the windshield wipers were hard and in need of replacement. The emissions inspection is a different item, done in a different facility.

 

Exactly why I don't like grey market cars. The mods are done the cheapest possible way by the cheapest possible labor available. I would fix it.

 

I would follow Bill's advice.