No Soul

Couldn't disagree more. MB & BMW have free maintenance during the warranty period for a reason. The instant the warranty expires everything starts to fail. You don't notice the failures in warranty because they fix them. My E320 needed new rear brakes at 48,000. I've never had a car before where that happened. Highlander has 94,000 on original brakes(wow), Tracker had 92,000 before the front brakes were replaced (normal). Brake sensor light has now failed on the MB and I frankly don't need this grief. I got rid of my one and only Porsche because I couldn't keep it out of the shop and the MB is not long for my world. MB WAS solid and Cadillac WAS the world standard. No longer IMHO.

 

Having owned a new 3 series, that's not saying much... that car literally comes with nothing as standard.

Supposedly the '08 C-classes are a world better, but what do I know...





What I DO know is that the SL500 is in the shop again after the car failed to move from park to any other 'gear'. That's after the entire electrical system failed and is still failing. I can't tell you how many others problems it's had.

Do we really need AC fan strength to be displayed by lights and displays?



Sometimes simpler is just f**king better.

 

That was my point... for $15k less you get a Civic thats just as good. I think, for the most part, people that buy base model MB or BMW are just buying the badge and didnt actually go comparison shopping.

 

Porsche missed the boat on the Cayman and Boxer with the no-see engine.
Open the rear deck on a 911 and see tubes. Mercedes and all go to great lengths to hide the engine under plastic.
Toyota just put the trend into words.

Ferrari needs to go to great lengths to leave the engine exposed and make that package as interesting as possible.
Suspension and transmission if possible. Ala F40, Boxers, etc.

 

I realize that you were talking about Toyota, but...

Honda Integra Type R.
Honda NSX.
Nissan (R3X) Skyline GT-R.
Toyota Supra.

None of these cars have any soul? Really? These are all incredible cars, and the last two are icons of a tuning era the likes of which will never be seen again.

I'm not arguing that they match that incredible, Latin passion that Italian carmakers seem to engineer into their cars, but, if I may make so bold, I have always viewed cars such as the Type R as minnie Ferraris--that red Honda badge gets my blood going in much the same way as the Prancing Horse does. They're similar in how they work, too--both cars talk extremely well to you, have motors that rev to high heaven, handle like dreams, etc.

The bare bones Japanese car may be lacking in automotive soul, but so are most bare bones people. As someone who loves Ferraris, I find it hard to overlook the zing and fun that Japanese cars like these seem to have in abundance. Give me a Type R for the daily commute and a 355 for the weekend and I wouldn't ask for more.

 

I find it comical how mainstream manufacturers market their compact, econo-boxes as "fun to drive" for lack of anything else good to say about their driving characters. What a lame way of saying, "This car is virtually void of any and all convenience/luxury/technology features, has an anemic, econo engine and doesn't weigh a whole lot as a result of both."




I've seen this with the Nissan Versa and Ford Focus...I'm sure others have used it.

 

There was a fun piece on Fifth Gear (on BBC?) a while back with the UK's 'Top 10 Ferraris', and one of the presenters opened the bonnet on the Daytona to point out that all the car's "guts" were on display.

Whenever someone is seeing my car for the first time, I always make it a point to show off the engine -- not some plastic cover that says 'Ferrari' on it, but the intake casting, the valve covers, the whole deal. (Now, no one asks to see my car anymore... )

 

+1

+1

+1

 

I'd have to disagree. Even "boring" cars like Camrys and Accords have character. Just not the type to appeal to someone looking for fun and excitment. Also, in Toyota's defence, their cars can have lots of character/soul. Just look at cars like the MR2, Scion XA and xB, Corolla AE86, Supra, even their original Minivan etc..... You can't assume that every car in a manufacturer's lineup (especially one as big as Toyota's) will appeal to all on the same level.

Sonny

 

with your experience, i would disagree with what i said too

 

I have two driving modes.

One is to get somewhere. I want the trip for myself and my passengers (usually wife and 2 kids) to be uneventful, safe, comfortable. I want the car to be easy to get into and out of. I want it to easily carry our stuff. I want it to be inconspicuous, easy to park, and I don't want to have to worry about it while I am away from it. Our Honday Odyssey (115k miles) does this wonderfully.
And if it is just me going, I'd much rather ride my bike.

The second mode is for fun. Then I have no interest in getting somewhere, I want to see as few other cars as possible, I want curvy mountain roads, and I want to experience the car.

It is impossible to build a car that is exceptional at both tasks. You simply have to compromise something. 90% of people fall into the first category 100% of the time. The rest of us get it.

I am always amazed at people who don't give a crap about cars spend extra money on them for the image, but that's a different thing. Right now, the hot image is to pretend you are saving the environment.

 

nothing is impossible (especially when it comes to cars)... A car that combines what you are talking about is a Cayenne GTS (6-spd manual.) One of the only high powered suvs with a manualbox and the handling of a car. That vehicle can haul extra people, haul goods, and be a pleasure to drive to a considerable level. Ofcourse it will be overlooked because it is still an suv - but i think it does a fair job combining both tasks.