"NO SPACE FLIGHT FOR YOU!" | FerrariChat

"NO SPACE FLIGHT FOR YOU!"

Discussion in 'Other Off Topic Forum' started by RacerX_GTO, Jan 29, 2007.

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  1. RacerX_GTO

    RacerX_GTO F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 2, 2003
    14,797
    Oregon
    Full Name:
    Gabe V.
    This really ticked me off. A guy's dream of going into space was shot down, via the IRS. Damn them.

    No Free Ride For Space Tourists

    LOS ANGELES (Jan. 29) - Brian Emmett's childhood fantasy came true when he won a free trip to outer space. He was crushed when he had to cancel his reservation because of Uncle Sam.

    Emmett won his ticket to the heavens in a 2005 sweepstakes by Oracle Corp., in which he answered a series of online questions on Java computer code. He became an instant celebrity, giving media interviews and appearing on stage at Oracle's trade show.

    For the self-described space buff who has attended space camp and watched shuttle launches from Kennedy Space Center, it seemed like a chance to become an astronaut on a dime.

    Then reality struck. After some number-crunching, Emmett realized he would have to report the $138,000 galactic joy ride as income and owe $25,000 in taxes. Unwilling to sink into debt, the 31-year-old software consultant from the San Francisco Bay area gave up his seat.

    "There was definitely a period of mourning. I was totally crestfallen," Emmett said. "Everything you had hoped for as a kid sort of evaporates in front of you."

    With commercial spaceships still under development, it's uncertain when the infant space tourism industry will actually get off the ground. Still, ultra-rich thrill-seekers are already plunking down big - though refundable - deposits to experience a few minutes of weightlessness 60 miles above Earth.

    And in recent years, space tourism companies have teamed with major corporations to stage contests with future suborbital spaceflights as the grand prize.

    The partnerships have interstellar hype - but as Emmett found out, they can get mired in that most earthbound hassle: taxes.

    "From a consumer perspective ... I'd be wary," said Kathleen Allen, director of the University of Southern California's Marshall Center for Technology Commercialization. "I'd check to see the fine print."

    Since the Internal Revenue Service requires winnings from lottery drawings, TV game shows and other contests to be reported as taxable income, tax experts contend there's no such thing as a free spaceflight. Some contest sponsors provide a check to cover taxes, but that income is also taxable.

    "I don't see how an average person can swing that kind of tax payment. It's a big, big bite," said tax attorney Donna LeValley, contributing editor for J.K. Lasser's annual tax guide.

    To reduce the financial burden, winners can argue that they don't owe any taxes until their flight lifts off. Another option is working out an installment plan to pay taxes over time, said Greg Jenner of the American Bar Association.

    The IRS declined to comment, saying it does not talk about individual matters.

    Despite Emmett's cancellation, Oracle said its contest was a success. The software giant is in the process of naming his replacement and still has two other winners on board from Asia and Europe.

    That spaceflight will be provided by Space Adventures Ltd., the same company that brokers deals for trips on Russian rockets to the orbiting international space station for a reported $20 million per customer.

    Eric Anderson, the company's chief executive, insists that contests are the best way for most people to get into space. He said Space Adventures has given away about 20 reservations through competitions, and the majority of winners are satisfied.

    Space contest rules vary widely but generally require winners to undergo astronaut training before the trip and sign a waiver freeing the sponsors from any liability if there's an accident.

    Microsoft Corp. is the latest company to dangle a free space ride. This month it launched an elaborate online puzzle game as part of its promotional campaign for its new Vista PC operating system. The grand prize winner - to be named this week - gets a seat with Rocketplane Ltd., which is building a souped-up Lear jet it hopes will ferry passengers to space in late 2009.

    The $50,000 check that comes with the prize, which is valued at $253,500, should cover the winner's taxes, said Brian Marr, group marketing manager for Vista.

    It's common for contest winners to have to play a waiting game.

    Virgin Galactic customer Doug Ramsburg won his ticket in a Volvo sweepstakes during the 2005 Super Bowl. His family and friends often hound him about when he'll reach the cosmos. After all, Virgin Galactic doesn't have any spacecraft yet.

    Even without an itinerary, Ramsburg says he's not worried. He said he's confident in the man tasked to build Virgin's commercial spacecraft - aerospace designer Burt Rutan, whose SpaceShipOne became the first privately manned rocket to reach space in 2004.

    Ramsburg considers the prize a "blessing" but declined to talk about the financial arrangements, except to say the $100,000 check that came with the prize should make him the first free Virgin Galactic passenger.

    "You don't have to be a superhero in order to go to space," said Ramsburg, 43, who works in the admissions office of the University of Colorado at Denver.

    Back on Earth, Emmett said he has no regrets about turning down his trip and doesn't blame anyone.

    "I was, however briefly, a potential astronaut," he wrote last fall in a blog entry titled "Clipped Wings."


    01/29/07 00:02 EST
     
  2. Rickenbach

    Rickenbach F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2005
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    Rickenhoser
    $25k seems pretty cheap to obtain a childhood dream. He could have easily offset the cost with some creative marketing. Sounds to me like he gave up too easily.
     
  3. GrigioGuy

    GrigioGuy Splenda Daddy
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    Nov 26, 2001
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    Splenda Daddy
    Yep, got to agree. For a spaceflight, I would sell my major organs.
     
  4. mattymouse33

    mattymouse33 F1 Rookie

    Oct 25, 2004
    4,634
    We'll set aboot ye!
    Full Name:
    Matthew
    Ahem, I assume you would like to keep one of them surely!
     
  5. quattro

    quattro Karting

    Jul 16, 2005
    171
    Chicago
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    Daniel Kelly
    wow...that sucks
     
  6. Kds

    Kds F1 World Champ

    The second sentence of this thread is wrong.

    The IRS did not shot down his spaceflight......virtually everyone in the US knows that you pay taxes on lotteries and prizes won in contests. Furthermore, it would have been disclosed in the official rules that he signed when he ntered the contets and accepted the prize, and Oracle would have been held liable if they did not inform him of same.

    The guy is a moron.......plain and simple.
     
  7. jungathart

    jungathart Guest

    Jun 11, 2004
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    Komrade Jung
    Tillman did say major, 'mm'. :D:D
     
  8. Rexcoltrain

    Rexcoltrain Formula Junior

    Nov 6, 2003
    671
    Oahu, Hawaii
    If someone offered me a spaceflight for $25k I would make it happen, and it's honestly something I don't particularly care about . 5 years from now, this guy will be kicking himself.
     
  9. Ace503

    Ace503 Formula 3

    Feb 22, 2006
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    Korben Dallas
    That really does suck. But to echo the other comments, i would make it happen for 25k. Especially considering its $20 million to go up on the russian craft. Not a bad deal.....
     
  10. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
    14,481
    FL
    Where will this thing takeoff? In the US? If it's outside the US, I don't think he'd have to pay taxes. Kind of like winning a prize in say France and keeping it there. I don't think you'd have to report it unless you bring it into this country. Since it's a spaceflight (a service), keep it outside the US.

    Do the companies that run contests pay income tax on the money used to buy the prize? Say they buy a $100,000 car to raffle off. Will that be post-tax income used to purchase the prize or pre-tax and the tax gets shifted to the winner? Or do they have double taxation like Powerball, etc, where buyers use post-tax money and pay tax on the winnings?

    Edit: Another double taxation thing is money people spend to buy $100+ raffle tickets for vehicles at some contests. Post-tax income and then you pay tax again on the car even though the money raised is post-tax.
     
  11. fastliz

    fastliz Formula Junior

    Jun 22, 2005
    439
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    Mike
    Put the word out that you'll be on a historical space flight and are willing to wear a hat, t-shirt, shoes, temporary tatoo on your forehead with any brand who is willing to pay $XXX,XXX. Problem solved. Hmmm... maybe Nike, Toyota, Starbucks, Toys-R-Us, Delta Airlines, or any number of big brands would fall all over themselves trying to get their name emblazoned on your clothing. Turn that flight suit into a huge banner. This is a no-brainer.

    Mike
     
  12. dantm

    dantm Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2003
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    Dan B.
    Guys this must have been a marketing ploy for some good Oracle advertising...obviously a space flight does not cost $150K, and this was likely the promise to pay this guy's ticket *when* the cost will be $150K. So it was a future value which might have never realized in his lifetime and for which he had to hand over 25K *today*.
     
  13. QT3141

    QT3141 Formula Junior

    Jul 24, 2006
    609
    Well, not so simple, I think. I'm sure Oracle would have something to say about other companies being allowed to muscle-in (ad-wise) on their publicity event. They'll likely contractually prohibit this guy from overtly advertising for others and pixelate/blur any unauthorised brandnames that inadvertently slip through in the TV/internet broadcast, if any.

    What Oracle *could* have done to avoid all this slightly negative publicity is to quietly slip him the $25k as an additional gift. In which event, this guy can use that money to pay tax on his spaceflight gift, and he only has to pay tax out of his own pocket on the $25k, which I'm sure he can afford (if he can't, he doesn't deserve a damn thing).
     
  14. fastliz

    fastliz Formula Junior

    Jun 22, 2005
    439
    Palm Bch County, FL
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Good point and likely true. Oh well... I was "just thinkin'!" ;)

    Mike
     

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