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458 Noise or rattle when turning.

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by Blagge, Jun 14, 2019.

  1. Blagge

    Blagge Rookie

    Apr 30, 2008
    38
    Hi guys,

    Has anyone experienced this before?
    The noise is noticable at lower speed, when turning.
    I dont know if it comes from the steering.
    The noise is like hacking.

    Best regards
     
  2. Vette2Modena

    Vette2Modena Rookie

    Apr 2, 2014
    37
    Long Beach, CA
    I have a 2010 Italia that has a noise/rattle in the rear of the car that occurs only when I turn sharply right or left at slow speeds (at least that's the only time I can hear it). It is not a rubbing sound and is not a front or rear tire rubbing against the body. At each of my last annual services, I had different technicians at the local Ferrari dealer accompany me on a test drive so they could hear the noise/rattle themselves while inside the car and then drove the car in alternating left and right circles with the technician outside of the car to locate the noise. The noise doesn't really sound like the one in the video though. I then to it to an independent exoctic car shop. They could not diagnose the rattle either. So my car still has the rattle and no one can figure it out.
     
  3. thebigo

    thebigo Rookie

    Feb 10, 2019
    47
    Maybe hydraulic pump for steering.
     
  4. SVCalifornia

    SVCalifornia Formula 3

    Mar 28, 2011
    1,711
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    Keith
    So much to try in these cases.

    First is try to isolate as mud as possible. Engine noise from wheel speed. Chassis from rotating devices. Steering wheels from rear bearings. Possible loose fittings like windows or lights or seat belts.

    At rest turn the steering wheel. Windows up and down to see if your can hear any odd sounds. Separately rev engine a bit to hear if you have clunks from loose engine mounts.

    On turns put the transmission in neutral on some turns to see if the rattles are different and related to engine speed or transmission speed/engagement.

    Does the road condition induce the noise? Rough pavement make it worse? In rough conditions feel the windows to see if the are rattling in place. Or the dash and dash components similarly. Check seats that may be loose and rattle in position. Your own touch can tell you a lot.

    Also, external noises can be amplified by driving next to a wall by a building that reflects the noises back to you thru your windows. Check for loose license plates and plate holders.

    Hope this helps!

    SV


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  5. Blagge

    Blagge Rookie

    Apr 30, 2008
    38
    thank you for the replies, the sound is like knocking when turning at lower speed I think.
     
  6. Napoli

    Napoli Formula Junior

    Nov 18, 2017
    342
    Full Name:
    Napoli
    This may sound overly simplistic, but buckle the passenger side seat belt and then see if the sound goes away.
     
  7. up4speed

    up4speed F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 16, 2012
    2,750
    Long Island, NY
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    Chris
    I'm not sure what you are describing.
    Do you feel the whole car jump, like one wheel is skidding a little, while only turning very sharp?
    If so, It may be the "Ackerman effect", which is normal, especially in sports cars. It is extremely exaggerated when the tires are starting to dry rot (usually around 6 years old) especially in the cold. A new set of tires completely silences it.
     
  8. Blagge

    Blagge Rookie

    Apr 30, 2008
    38
    Is it possible that the problem is the power steering pump or the fluid?
     
  9. SVCalifornia

    SVCalifornia Formula 3

    Mar 28, 2011
    1,711
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    Keith
    Likely will hear it just when turning the steering wheel whole stationary.

    SV


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  10. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    May 21, 2006
    5,316
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    Is the car and tires and everything all stock?

    That's an odd noise. I'd check the wheel weights to see if they have come loose and/or if they might be hitting the brake caliper.

    If it has non standard tires, I'd check to see if the tires are scrubbing on the plastic fender liners

    Ray
     
  11. Blagge

    Blagge Rookie

    Apr 30, 2008
    38
    The tires are basically brand new, stock dimensions michelin ps 4s , I have checked the calipers they look alright and inside the house.
     
  12. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    May 21, 2006
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    jack the car up and spin the wheels at full lock and see if you hear anything.

    I'd also turn off all the traction control stuff just as a test. The other thing is to try the test on a wet surface, in order to see if it's just a scuffing sound coming from the tread against the road.

    Do you have a front lift on the car?

    Did you check to see if the inside fender area shows any signs of scuffing?

    Also, check your weight weights. I ran into a case once where I installed wheel weights on my 458 and they were in a location where they were scuffing the edge of the caliper as I remember. I had to use thinner double sided tape to put them on and also side them in a bit.

    Ray
     
  13. Blagge

    Blagge Rookie

    Apr 30, 2008
    38
    Thank you for the response Ray, I will check the weights, the sound is noticeable when turning and on uneven surfaces.
    No front lift on the car.
     
  14. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    #15 RayJohns, Jun 26, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2019
    it's been a while since I worked on the suspension of my 458, but as I remember there is a little pivoting arm thing in there, which clips on. You might also check that to see if it need lubrication with some silicone. I think it's a position sensor of some sort.

    BTW, how many miles on this car?

    Ray
     
  15. Blagge

    Blagge Rookie

    Apr 30, 2008
    38
    I checked the weights and they seemed fine with no scratches.
    The car has around 21k miles.
     
  16. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    Do you happen to know if it's seen any track time?

    You might have worn bushings some place and/or a loose mount. If you watch my video below, where I'm working on my 458, you can see how things are setup. I would check the top two mounting bolts and also the bushing at both ends if the strut to see if anything has failed or is worn out. You might also have a failing ball joint or wheel bearing. Generally, if you jack the car up enough to get the tire off the ground, you can grab the wheel and move it around enough to feel if something is moving back and forth:



    Ray
     
  17. Blagge

    Blagge Rookie

    Apr 30, 2008
    38
    I dont think the car has been tracked.
    I noticed when I drive it from the start the first 10 or 15 min, the sound is never there, but after that it starts to sound.
     
  18. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    May 21, 2006
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    No idea. You'll just have to isolate where the sound is coming from as much as possible. Tracking down odd noises can be a nightmare.

    They sell a kit which has multiple sensors. You attach them around the car and then drive it and it will tell you which sensor the noise is closer to. I've never personally used one, but I have seen them in videos. That might be something to consider trying.

    Have you jacked up the car and pulled the wheels off to inspect things yet? A lot of times you can see where something is making contact, if you remove the wheels and look around in the wheel wells

    Ray
     
  19. Blagge

    Blagge Rookie

    Apr 30, 2008
    38
    Hi again Ray

    I took all the wheels off and inspected the inside.
    Noticed that one shock had some small leakage with oil, it might be the problem? It sounds like a vibration after a while.
     
  20. Blagge

    Blagge Rookie

    Apr 30, 2008
    38
    Hi again Ray

    I took all the wheels off and inspected the inside.
    Noticed that one shock had some small leakage with oil, it might be the problem? It sounds like a vibration after a while.
     
  21. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    Depends on how small. But normally, shocks shouldn't leak any oil at all. I've rebuilt motorcycle shocks in the past and there isn't much oil in there to begin with, so certainly not enough to be leaking around.

    If there is a vibration, I'd also check the wheels to see if they are out of round and/or true. My 458 Italia had a vibration around 60 MPH or so and I traced it to a slightly bent wheel. It was only a deflection of about .040", but it was enough to be noticed. If you check my YouTube videos, I think I have a video showing the tire up on a static balancer. You might want to rotate the wheel on the car and see if you can see any sort of bend or anything. Normally, the wheel should be pretty much dead on when it spins. Even just putting a stick up to the edge and turning it, there shouldn't be any visible movement away from the tip of the stick. Something as simple as hitting a pot hole can mildly bend a rim these days.

    Ray
     
  22. Blagge

    Blagge Rookie

    Apr 30, 2008
    38
    Checked the wheels also and they seem fine. I had a year inspection recently and everything was good when they tested the car.

    The "noise" appears after approximately 10 minutes of driving.
     
  23. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    Without seeing the car in person, I couldn't wager any further guesses as to what it might be.

    Have you tried driving with ESC OFF to see if it's perhaps something related to wheel modulation and the brakes? I'd also try resetting the ECU by disconnecting the battery, just to see if it clears anything up. A lot of times bizarre things can be magically cured with a reset. Your 458 is basically like an iPhone with wheels in some ways; there are a lot of sophisticated electronics on-board and sometimes things can go off track. Sometimes computer programming isn't as an exact science as you might think it is. There are things like buffer overflows and memory leaks and stack issues which can build up over time and cause unexpected results. Rebooting helps sometimes, if you are dealing with code that isn't flawless.

    Ray
     
  24. Blagge

    Blagge Rookie

    Apr 30, 2008
    38
    hi again Ray,

    yes I have tried but no sucess.
    Btw did you see the video that I posted a while ago?
    at 1.40 you can hear the sound.
     

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