Non Matching #- how much to discount

Is the body/chassis really a Series II or a Series I modified to LOOK like a Series II...? Sometimes, the factory would just toss a Series I engine into a Series II car or vice versa for a myriad of reasons... What does the current owner have to say...? Did s/he make any modifications to it or did s/he get it as is...? i really don't think there's gonna be any significant price difference...

 

you need to post your question at www.tomyang.net where you will get a plethora of answers. and, if you haven't already, check w/ Kerry Chesbro's 330GT2+2 register to get all the history there is on the car - maybe the story behind the motor is there.
I didn't know the motor changed from series 1 to series 2 - I thought the gearbox was the only thing that changed . . . But seriously, ask the guys on Tom's site.

I think the common wisdom is that for production cars, the #s don't need to match as long as the motor tipo is correct.

 

If I recall, the main body difference is the front clip and three piece vs. one piece bumpers. I think the motor mounts changed between early series 2 and late series 2. Besides that, I think the only changes are the peripherals such as the brakes, air cleaner, dashboard, etc.

My early series 2 is mechanically identical to series 1 interim cars and my dash is also the same.

Value and resale wise, a no stories car is usually better but there is something to be said for $140k of receipts. Is the car priced reasonably?

Regards,

Art S. 7919

PS. is this car blue with a red interior?

 

Art is right, the changes between the S1 and S2 were very gradually introduced, no clear cut changeover at all.

When you say the motor is from an S1 car, do you mean the number is different, or the design? If the block number matches the frame and dataplate number, I wouldn't worry about it at all. I would think the factory would always have the numbers matching in the beginning, but who knows what may have happened over 30 years.

In terms of engine differences, the S1, interim (and early S2) cars had the four mount motors, changing to a single mount later. The airboxes (snorkle vs pancake) are interchangeable, (my 'late' interim has the snorkle type), and I think the oil filters / cooling plumbing routing on the cam chain case changed too. I'd love to buy a pancake airfilter for mine - looks and sounds better (anyone?).

On the body, another difference is the fuel filler - the four headlight cars have them on the right side, and the two headlight cars are on the left. Of course, who knows if this is 100% true either!

I've seen S1 cars with the bumperettes both front and rear, again who knows if the factory sent it out that way?

At the end of the day, each car is what it is. If you like it, go for it. If it was bent, then fixed for 140k and looks good, great!

Cheers,
Jonathon

 

It IS possible that the block was replaced from being used so much... Could've been replaced with a Series I block and they just put all the Series II bells and whistles on it... It could still have the original engine but there's no way of telling that since the there's no numbers on any part of the engine except for the block... This only affects the car in terms of how much it is worth... Otherwise, it'll run just the same and if you show it, they'll only take one point off for non-matching numbers...

 

Supposedly, two engine mounts were used (instead of four) after s/n 8729, if that helps.

I, too, would be interested in a pancake air cleaner...

--Matt

 

From what I could see on Kerry's website, I like it.

I think that there are two factors that may outweigh the non-original engine:

1. How much are 330 GT's really worth? According to the Ferrari Market Letter, asking prices are up 15% over last year, and up 28% from two years ago. These are only asking prices, and are based on not very many samples, but I think that they reveal a definite trend. (365 2+2's are up also.)

2. I believe that the condition of the car (or, the potential amount of money to get it working properly) would probably be a bigger factor.

Plus, it also has a long history with the current engine, which is worth something.

But then again, you can always use it as a negotiating point, right?

For what it's worth, I own s/n 9453, and I can't say enough about how great 330 GT's are. They're beautiful, powerful, and relatively simple to maintain.

--Matt

 

Is it still priced at $49k? If so, sounds like a good deal. Drive it for 5 years then repaint it to its original green if you want originality. While you are driving your car, you can look for the original block.

Art S.

 

FYI, I was just reading in the FCA News Bulletin about guidelines for concours judging. Out of 34 possible points for the engine and chassis, one (1) point is taken off for incorrect engine s/n.

So the concours guys don't value it too much.

BTW, it is 5 points off for incorrect engine type. However, I don't know if this would be considered an incorrect engine type or not.

 

That's good info, Don. I don't think that it would be considered a different engine type, it's still a tipo 209, right?

I have the auction catalog from when the car was sold in Switzerland (and the car still has the Swiss Autobahn sticker in the window, which I don't know if I should remove or not.)

I bought the car (or, I should say, I rationalized the purchase of a 2+2 Ferrari) because I had a newborn baby. I've always thought that it would be great to have a Columbo-designed, front engined V-12. The fact that it had rear seats (which are surprisingly usable) meant that I could carry the whole family around by simply putting a baby seat in back. So, at least in my mind, a 330 was a downright practical car for a new father to buy.

When I asked the previous owner why he was selling it, he said it was because he had a baby on the way.

Good luck, Daniel! Keep us posted on your car search.

 

Oh damn! I sat in 9119 in 2000 at Octagon Auto. It was the first 330 I sat in when I just started thinking about getting a Ferrari. Never having sat in one even, I wanted to see what the feel of the cars pedals, seating position and controls was like. It had the spare window crank which the fellow at Octagon explained was probably because Enzo was in a Ferrari whose electric windows failed to operate, "So now all electric window cars came with hand cranks." It is funny how these cars just continually float around.

At the time Octagon Auto had three 330's which I think they may have originally planned to part out. But when I went there only this Series 2 was around. The others were at a paint shop because, I guess by that point, they decided to somewhat restore and sell them whole.

They are near Red Lion Pa. and have a field of cracked up foreign cars like the more common Alfas and Lotuses and indoor shed full of foreign car engines. Then across the road (as I remember it) they have a couple of metal barns full of cars like the Ferrari 330 in various shapes. In the late 1990's they always seemed to have some older Ferraris for sale in Hemmings. Now I never hear about them.

Yale

 

Yale:

They are still around. Currently have an early euro TR and a 330 GTC available.

http://www.octagonauto.com/Carsforsale.htm

 

Yale,

Welcome to the dark side.

Art S.

PS. are there other boards besides here and Tom's where vintage Italian is discussed?