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Not another shift shaft thread ..

Discussion in '308/328' started by conan, Nov 9, 2019.

  1. conan

    conan Formula Junior

    Nov 13, 2011
    327
    There are several threads on the subject but I guess another angle of view might help others trying to change the seals. This is not a quick fix or do it in the most time efficient way. It is part of the fun to explore.

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  2. Irishman

    Irishman F1 Rookie

    Oct 13, 2005
    3,474
    Raleigh
    Full Name:
    Kevin
    Well, that would be the view where you start scratching your head. The fun is all ahead so to speak : - ).

    On your car, maybe a leak at the drain plug? Otherwise, it looks dry and you're golden :) :).
     
  3. conan

    conan Formula Junior

    Nov 13, 2011
    327
    Yes, this is only the beginning of the work. The first problem was how to lift the car higher and secure it. I had recently purchased new axle stands with heights that my car jack could not reach, but with a block of wood as spacer it worked well to lift a few cm higher.
     
  4. conan

    conan Formula Junior

    Nov 13, 2011
    327
    Where is the dipstick then? I read that it was hard to reach but I could not see it ...

    Behind the alternator was a good guess, and I removed the bracket and cleaned it. Actually, to get the alternator bolt out, the bracket had to come off. The alternator can stay in the car.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. conan

    conan Formula Junior

    Nov 13, 2011
    327
    The dipstick assembly was easy to remove. Question is what torque to use to. I guess 30Nm might be good, as is used for some sensors in the block.

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. conan

    conan Formula Junior

    Nov 13, 2011
    327
    And here is the dipstick when fully inserted.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie

    Aug 7, 2012
    2,643
    Tallahassee, FL
    Just replace the crush washer and torque it snugly. You don't really need a torque value on that one.
     
  8. Irishman

    Irishman F1 Rookie

    Oct 13, 2005
    3,474
    Raleigh
    Full Name:
    Kevin
    Wow, not sure how you got that photo of the dipstick assembly. Only the dipstick tube has to be removed. But no harm in removing the apparatus it sits in. If you are in the area might as well replace the copper crush washer for it, too. If you can get a torque wrench into that area please share the details as I think it would be easier to walk on water.

    If you are planning to drop the oil pan you also need to remove the oil temp sensor. It sits just above/near where the shift shaft enters the oil pan. There is a rubber cover for the wire. Pull it off and then you can disconnect the wire from the sensor. Fun thing for me was the wire decided to divorce itself from the spade connector. That's the fun with a forty year old car. Good thing I invested in high quality crimp tool some years ago : - ).
     
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  9. conan

    conan Formula Junior

    Nov 13, 2011
    327
    Thanks for the great suggestions! I have actually removed the oil pan already. The temp sensor had to come off and I noticed the tapered design and thread sealant so I guess it does not need to be torqued down much.

    Anyway, the pan had two tight areas where I am not sure exactly what is the tight spot in the upper part. The lower spot was the pickup tube which was easy to see and move the pan around.

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  10. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    10,417
    FRANCE
    Both my 328 (1989 GTB and 1989 GTS) have a dipstick with seven holes between the "min" and "max" graduation, making relly easy to note how much oil you have in the pan (= three holes oiled, four holes oiled, etc...).
    Rgds
     
  11. conan

    conan Formula Junior

    Nov 13, 2011
    327
    I think the dipstick should be easier to read on most vehicles. Agree to that

    Well, here is a photo when the pan got a hit by the rubber hammer. It was easier than most cars I have worked on ..

    I left three nuts to catch the pan ...

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  12. conan

    conan Formula Junior

    Nov 13, 2011
    327
    Yesterday I scraped off the old gasket and revealed what seems to be factory deburring of edges, but I am not sure ... anyone knows?

    [​IMG]
     
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  13. conan

    conan Formula Junior

    Nov 13, 2011
    327
    The gearbox pan was a little harder to break loose but with a careful pry operation it is now off. I noticed they helicoil the sump plug. Good thing since there are not many threads and too many mechanics tightening too much.

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  14. conan

    conan Formula Junior

    Nov 13, 2011
    327
    Yesterday when cleaning the gearbox pan, I noticed what seems to be a crack which had been covered by some gasket sealer. See the brown blob in the photo. Even more worrysome was a hairline crack on the other side too. But before I got into too much thinking how to fix it, there were several other hairline cracks ...

    Strange. So I used a stereo microscope too have a closer look. It was evident that there is indeed an irregularly formed crack which looks like casting imperfections. On the pan outside, those hairlines were in fact ridges and not cracks. Coincidence maybe ..

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  15. conan

    conan Formula Junior

    Nov 13, 2011
    327
  16. conan

    conan Formula Junior

    Nov 13, 2011
    327
    I had a look at the gear internal controls since 1st and reverse were off in relation to the shift gate and the other gears.

    I losened both the gear selector fork and the shift selector fork to let the shaft adjust properly to the ball with spring. Torqued down to 22Nm since this was what I got using the open and tighten to the same angle technique.

    Then tried engage and release both gears to hear the release clicks at the exact positions relative to the shift gate. Also verified the fork was still positioned correctly in relation to the gears.

    The nuts for the selector rockers assembly are torqued to 9Nm.

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  17. conan

    conan Formula Junior

    Nov 13, 2011
    327
    I did some more disassembly work yesterday where I found out that it is probably impossible to get the shaft out from the gearbox without moving the shaft into the cabin. Maybe the engine mounts could be moved, but I did this the other way, to remove the seats, center console and remove the shaft. Very easy, actually.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Lawrence Coppari

    Lawrence Coppari Formula 3

    Apr 29, 2002
    1,902
    Kingsport, TN
    Full Name:
    Lawrence A. Coppari
    I was unable to loosen engine mounts so I resorted to removing the seats/console in order to get the shift rod out. It was time consuming but not difficult. Job was completed early this year. Used the X-rings. They were very tight but loosened up with use. All is well now.
     
  19. Freddie328

    Freddie328 Karting

    Jul 29, 2013
    183
    Herts, UK
    Full Name:
    Richard
    Strange how these cars are all different.
    It was tight but the shaft came straight out on mine without loosening engine mounts or removing centre console.
     
  20. conan

    conan Formula Junior

    Nov 13, 2011
    327
    Maybe the 328 is different? The main issue I had was that the shaft from the cabin goes through a metal ring welded to the frame. The ring diameter is not large enough to let the shaft out of the way.

    The other issue was the gearbox portion of the shaft would catch the engine sump casting if tilted too much from the normal.
     
  21. Freddie328

    Freddie328 Karting

    Jul 29, 2013
    183
    Herts, UK
    Full Name:
    Richard
    Mines a 328 with ABS
    In the third gear position I tightly tie wrapped the front part of the shaft to the exhaust manifold so it was out of the way. This gave just enough room to remove the shaft.
     
  22. conan

    conan Formula Junior

    Nov 13, 2011
    327
    Removed the seals and found the one for the gearbox was toasted. It was tearing apart with very small effort. The outer seal seems to be ok, but I change both anyway.

    The hook slips into the seal and pulls it out easily.

    [​IMG]
     
  23. conan

    conan Formula Junior

    Nov 13, 2011
    327
    Things are coming together after Christmas, which is a priority, and the 328 comes 2nd, actually.

    I read about the X seals, cup seals and lots of other seals too. So I decided to go with the Superformance cup seals ... mostly due to that I might pull the engine later and do some gearbox work and I am not too concerned about seals failing in a year or two.

    To be honest, I think the cup seal inside the engine between trans and sump should be a quad seal or rather a kind of dual cup seal with sealing lips in both directions. The outer seal is just fine since the lip is positioned correctly.

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  24. ChevyDave

    ChevyDave Rookie

    Dec 21, 2019
    11
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Full Name:
    Dave W
    Thanks Irishman! Logged-on today to research causes/solutions my inoperative Oil Temp Gauge and you've given me the perfect starting point...also appreciate your post Conan; seems like there's always more than one way to skin a cat!
     
  25. conan

    conan Formula Junior

    Nov 13, 2011
    327
    Removing the center console revealed some labels which I assume comes from the switches but the yellow sticker with Ferrari on it, what is this? Center console assembly test?

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