Not funny

Since the 412 came into the family in January this year I have driven it about 4,000 km's without much trouble. The odd broken hydraulic line, left electric hood-motor, rubber exhaust ring or fuel pump relais (I found out it is quite fortunate the 412 has 2 fuel pumps and is not shy to bring one home on 6 cylinders) was swiftly dealt with in the last 5 months. Today however, the 412 showed a bit of her nasty side.

The last fews days in Italy and back and forth over the Splugen pass the 412 performed faultlessly (although I did have to get into reverse here and there in the very tight turns on the pass), but Wednesday night about 25 km's before home on the motorway the engine missed a beat twice. It felt like running out of petrol for a second of 2. I thought not much of it and the following day took the 412 for an important business meeting 100 km away. About 20 km into the trip I felt the engine hesitate again. I could not risk not showing up, so I turned around and went back home to change the 412 for some of Munich 10 cylinder's finest. Did not feel the same but got me there on time and without the risk of being stranded.

Today I took the 412 again for a 20 km drive along the Seestrasse of Lake Zurich. Just some quiet 4 to 5th gear cruising, between 60 and 80 kmh (not faster, they are quite strict here). All went well and I parked up the car for a cup of coffee at the Starbuck's and a few phone calls.

After about an hour I went back to the 412, put the key in the ignition, heard the fuel pumps being activated and meant to start her up. The starter engine span nice and sounded as new, but nothing happened after that. It seemed as if no petrol at all was injected in the engine. I took the keys out and closed and opened the doors again, thinking it may have been an alarm problem or something of the kind. It did not make a difference: the 412 would just spin the starter motor, but refused to start at all. I could not believe it and kept trying, with small and bigger intervals, but to no avail. In the end I got out and took a 10 min walk to think what to do. I got in again and tried once more, and it started... I did have to press the accelerator a bit, but it kept running (no blue smoke in the rear view mirror to be seen, fortunately). I was relieved, but decided to head to the Ferrari specialist 25 km away.

All was well, although I felt the engine hesitating for 2 times for about 1 to 2 seconds. Suddenly, after cruising 15 kms, all petrol pressure seemed to fall, all the red lights on the dash went on and the engine suddenly died completely. I coasted with no power to a parking space and tried to start the engine. After about 5 tries I did start and I continued on my way, without any problems. At the Ferrari specialist the sales guys had no idea and the most experienced mechanic who knows about these cars was already gone home. So no luck there. I started to the car again to head home and obviously it started on the 1st try, in front of the garage guys.

I have no explanation why the 412 suddenly has become unreliable. The only thing I can think of is that in Italy the car was filled up at a gas station (they still pump the gas for you here and there), I did not pay attention which kind of petrol was put in. It may well have been 91 octane. Would that have made a difference? According to the garage guys the car would only have sounded a bit rougher, but would not have cut the engine out. On my way home I filled the 50% empty tank up with 98 octane (embarrassing enough at a Lybian Tamoil station...) and now hope it will mix with the low quality fuel I had put in in Italy. I will drive 50 to 100 km tomorrow to see what's happening.

Does anybody have experience with difficult starting 365-400-412's? Or engines cutting out completely while driving? Both fuel pump relais were renewed 2 months ago, so that hardly could be the fault.

 

Thanks for the quick reaction Peter.

When the engine dies I don't hear the pumps, all is completely quiet. When I start up again I can hear the pumps getting into action.

How do I check for a spark?

 

Thanks for the suggestions guys! The operation with the spark plug is a little ambitious for someone with 2 automotive left hands, but I will start by having a look at the fusebox.

I drove this morning about 20 kms and started the car 3 times: everything went perfectly...

 

Thanks again for all the suggestions. Below I listed your ideas on the problem and the possible solution. An update on the problem:

This afternoon I drove about 30 km and just when I arrived at my destination, the engine cut out and fell silent. I was able to coast to a halt and park it out of the way. While I tried to start, a Maserati Quattroporte which just passed me, backed up and parked in front of me. The guy got out and asked if he could do anything. It turned out he had a 400i and had had big trouble with the fuel pumps. There was not much he could do, so he wished me luck and went on his way. I tried to start the 412 for about 10 times but no success. The engine did not even crank. I decided to leave it and do my shopping. After half an hour I got back in the car and tried again. It started immediately. It started to dawn on me that the problem only occurs when the engine is warmed up. With a cold engine there is no problem, as soon as the engine starts to warm up it cuts out and does not want to start up again. I quickly went in the direction of my home town, but after about 10 km the engine died again. Of course it wouldn't start again. I parked it along the road again and waited for 20 to 30 minutes. After that it did start again. I gave up the idea to drive home with the 412 and quickly parked it in a nearby parking garage. The train station was nearby so I did get home after some time. When the car is nice an cold tomorrow morning the misses and I will drive over with the Cayenne and a tow cable and try to get the car home.

Conclusion: engine cuts out and dies when warm and starts up only after cooling off again.

I noted the following from your kind suggestions:

- Check spark (stupid question: can I hold the cable with the spark plug in it, without getting an electric shock? of course I will hold the spark plug with the thread against the engine);
- Check the fuse(s) in the glove compartment;
- Check the relays for corrosion or a bad ground (although the relays of both fuel pumps were renewed a few months ago);
- Check the connectors at the fuel pumps for corrosion;
- Check alarm system (and if possible, have removed completely);
- Check for loose connectors on fuel pumps and on the distributor(s?);
- Check starter (when not starting, it is indeed not cranking the engine, it only makes a whizzing sound);
- Check fuse board behind footwell for long white connectors which may be burned from the bad connection of the connectors;
- Inform it the mechanic can sand the frame paint under the ground cables off to promote good solid ground points;
- Check the relay for the relay;
- Check for clogged fuel filter;
- Ask quotation for rewiring the fuel pumps;
- Check the connection (copper strip) between engine and chassis.

I will keep you posted guys! Sad sight, the garage without the 412, especially after the great Italy run...

 

Thanks Guido, I added this to the list. It is getting quite long, so the solution must be lurking somewhere in this list...

 

Great suggestion Ashman, thanks! I can imagine that if a sensor notes that the mixture is too rich, it stops the car from starting and cranking. It does seem that the problem starts to occur with shorter intervals. The first time I could drive 30 kms before the engine cut out, after that 20 km and the last time yesterday I could drive only 5 km after which the show as over. So it seems to get worse. I will put your suggestion on top of the list of thing the mechanic needs to check.

I keep thinking what I did different with the 412 after which the problem occurred. A few things:

- I drove in Italy;
- I put 1 litre Mobile 1 15W40 in;
- Probably 91 octane was put in the car;
- Really stupid: at a closed gas station I opened the little petrol door and put the petrol cap in the bootlit, after which I studied the payment terminal how to put money in and get gas out. Being Italy, there was no chance this would work or at least be understandable. So I got back in the car, drove off and after 5 km noticed the little petrol door was still open. Stopped the car and saw I forgot to put the petrol cap back on... Went to look for it, but never found it;
- Next day I tried to find a new petrol cap. Obviously did not succeed, but I did find a universal petrol cap, without a thread so it would fit more or less on most cars. At home ordered two (one as a spare...) new petrol caps at Eurospares;
- Before we drove over the pass back to Switzerland, I had the 412 fill up with said 91 octane. I waited at the cashier's and the guy filling the car up was busy for a while. I later saw the fuel indicator was more to the right than it ever has been before. The guy must have filled it up to the brim;
- On the pass after making a lot of tight turns I started to smell petrol after a while. I stopped and checked the fuel cap. The combination of a universal cap, a very full fuel tank and driving trough very tight turns with some speed made the car spill some fuel out of the not really fitting fuel cap. I drove much slower through the curves after that and on the regular roads after the pass the smell dissapeared. At home the smell was completely gone.

Anyway, those are the things which I did different than before the problem. I don't see how they could have contributed to the problem, but I have to analyse everything.

 

Thanks Andy!

So far I have been to Foitek in Altendorf, close by. So far I am satisfied, although they are quite expensive. I will bring the 412 to Foitek, but will certainly try D'Agostino.

Greetz,
Ben

 

Thanks Simon.

The garage in Urdorf was owned by Foitek and (still) is the official Ferrari dealership. Foitek sold it a few years ago (but it kept the name) and the 3 sons continued with a Maserati dealership in Altendorf, but sell a lot of used Ferrari's and service the Maserati's and Ferrari's. Since they had the dealership in Urdorf since the 70ties, they know a lot about older Ferrari's.