News

Nurburgring to have Speed Limits

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by kenyon, Jan 14, 2004.

  1. kenyon

    kenyon F1 Rookie

    Oct 7, 2002
    2,836
    East Yorkshire
    Full Name:
    Justin Kenyon
    http://www.pistonheads.com/trackdays/index.asp?storyId=7864

    'RING LIMITS'
    The beginning of the end or a sensible safety measure?
    The anomoly that is the infamous Nurburgring Nordshleife is coming under increasing scrutiny. For those that haven't been there it may come as a surprise to learn that the thirteen mile circuit is operated as a one way public toll road. Also, unlike on a track day, when operating as a public day there aren't marshalls on every corner - in fact you'll be lucky to see a marshall at all unless they're clearing up a crash.

    GT3 Porsches may hurtle around there at 150mph but you'll also see coaches and families in their 406 Estates pootling about for a gander. No flags to warn you of slow vehicles and you never know what might be lurking around the next corner.

    Crashes are frequent, and injuries and deaths - particularly to bikers - are numerous each year. It remains one of the most exciting and challenging roads in the world and until recently flew in the face of nanny state politics - if you wanted to take the risk, then it's your risk.

    Now, measures are gradually being introduced to reduce the number of crashes. It's been reported that this year will see speed limits being enforced at certain points around the circuit. Some of these are expected to be quite low, particularly at Breidscheid where there's another entry point to the circuit. Until now, whilst the road has got speed limits, it wasn't until you crashed that you'd get any attention from the law.

    No doubt the safety debate will continue. If people are made aware of the risks, do they have the right to put themselves at risk or do bureaucrats have the duty to reduce the risk of death and injury at any cost?
     
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  3. tifosi

    tifosi F1 Veteran
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    Sep 5, 2001
    5,382
    texas
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    Tom D
    we are all to familar with the issues at the ring - having lost our friends jens and amar in a crash there last year :(
     
  4. paulie_b

    paulie_b F1 Veteran
    Consultant Owner

    Jan 13, 2003
    6,792
    Jupiter, FL
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    Paul Bianco
    I remember that awful day also. It is about time something is being done. It is a move in the right direction; hope it works.
     
  5. Wolfgang

    Wolfgang F1 World Champ
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    Mar 8, 2003
    16,743
    Heidelberg, Germany
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    Wolfgang
    20. June 2003, Nürburgring Nordschleife
    R.I.P. my dear friends Jens & Amar.

    Wolfarossa
    FORZA FERRARI
     
  6. FLATOUTRACING

    FLATOUTRACING F1 Rookie

    Aug 20, 2001
    2,684
    East Coast
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    Jon K.
    I was just as saddened to hear of Jens and Amar's passing when it happened.

    That being said, the Ring is a race track not the Autobahn. I don't agree at all that they are moving in the right direction.

    I will conceed that possibly they are too lax in letting anyone get on the track without even a helmet but to impose speed limits defeats the purpose of everyone being there.

    I don't think it would be unrealistic to require everyone to rent a helmet for a fee but imposing speed limits means everyone will just ignore them. If you don't have marshalls everywhere how are you going to impose them.

    And what about the person who is abiding by them and for example putting around at say 100 kph just over Flugplatz when some crazed lunatic in a Ferrari is not abiding by the limit and closes on this car at 300 kph.

    Going to be a lot of carnage.

    When you go on the Ring you sign waivers and accept the risk of serious harm and sadly even death.

    Maybe it would be better to change the Ring to a track day format with instructors but speed limits would kill the whole thing.

    Just my 2 cents worth.

    Regards,

    Jon P. Kofod
    www.flatoutracing.net
     
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  8. bboxer

    bboxer Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2001
    612
    I am totally with John on this one. I've driven the Ring for many years both in a controlled environment and in an open format doddging buses and station wagons. I think the solution is two-tier open track sessions: one for sightseers with speed limits and the other for helmeted, waivered drivers. I was also saddened by last year's deaths but I would dare to think both Jens and Amar would not have liked the speed limit.(at least Jens whom I had a chance to correspond with before the sad event). Another 2cents.
     
  9. Tennlee

    Tennlee Formula Junior

    Feb 10, 2002
    645
    Great Smoky Mountains
    I'll confess that one rainy day this past fall I was a backmarker at the ring cruising in a rented Chrysler minivan. Yep I was slow, but the old mopar was giving it all the six chipmunks had. I'd hate to see a speed limit.
     
  10. JaguarXJ6

    JaguarXJ6 F1 Veteran

    Feb 12, 2003
    5,439
    Black Hawk, CO
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    Sunny
    So they are going to impose limits for the sake of crash statistics? Its not like its a residential street. Its a race track, has always been a race track. Controlling who goes in is much easier than setting limits which drivers will not choose to obey given the roads purpose. Idiots.
     
  11. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 3, 2002
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    Andreas
    I second every word of this.
     
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  13. jordan747_400

    jordan747_400 F1 Veteran
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    Dec 9, 2002
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    Jordan Witherspoon
    I have to agree with you there Sunny!
     
  14. Cavallino Motors

    Cavallino Motors F1 World Champ
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    May 31, 2001
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    Martin W.
    The problem is not the track, not the speed but the fact they let all kinds of idiots on there at the same time. Yes it may be a public road but it is also restricted when there are races so there will be no problem if they restrict it to a two class system. You want to give all you have got or more and kill yourself, go on the regulated track session.
    You want to cruise along, only on other times . lets say mornings open for cruisers at controlled limits, afternoons only helmet, extinguisher, open.

    Sad to think about Jens and Amar but I doubt that any speed limit would have saved their lifes. Rather making it mandatory to have fire extinguishers on every vehicle entering the track would have had a better impact.

    may they both RIP.
     
  15. zsnnf

    zsnnf Formula 3

    Sep 11, 2003
    1,877
    A similar thing is happening here in the states. One of the promoters of Open Road Racing has dropped the Unlimited class in it's 3 Nevada races. There is now a 200mph speed limit. To some of you this may not seem like much, but it is a far cry from the 225+ we are used to running.
    A speed limit is a speed limit.....

    Rick
     
  16. Meeyatch1

    Meeyatch1 Formula 3

    Dec 28, 2003
    1,335
    State of confusion.
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    Mitch
    While I understand that capping speed is usually the first thing people look to when deaths happen frequently in certain areas, the Nurburgring is different. It is the one of the last places in the world where you can drive a truly amazing piece of pavement and feel what real driving is all about. My fiance and I want to go there for our honeymoon (yes, we are both car crazed) and drive the course as much as possible. The Nurburgring represents to me a place outside of the 'sue-happy' society where everyone blames everyone else for their mistakes....one of the great things about this track is that YOU are responsible for yourself. Just like it should be. If you go on the track and get hurt or (God forbid) killed, you knew that was a risk going out. It is not like people driving the 'Ring do not expect that a Porsche GT3 or Ferrari F40 might just streak by them at 190 mph. To me the track represent one of the last parts of society where you are required to take responsibility for yourself and still have a great time doing it. The 'Ring should stay the great icon that it is.
     
  17. Wolfgang

    Wolfgang F1 World Champ
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    Mar 8, 2003
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    Martin (Cavallino Motors),

    good post & very well said!!!!!

    Only a few here on board are knowing the “Ring” or have ever driven there.
    Here are some facts you shoud know:
    - Permanent open, 7 days a week from early in the morning till the evening
    - 1 lap is over 20km / 12,5 MILES!!!!!
    - 84 Right-Hand-Bends
    - 88 Left-Hand-Bends
    - lap time for 1 round is between 7:50 – 10:00 minutes
    impossible to have on each point/curve a security/ambulance – 7 days / 12 hours
    for so called “tourist – drives”! There are many security cars around the track, but still not enough!

    Gents, there are driving private persons with their Ferrari`s, Lamborghini`s, Porsche`s a.s.o. with serious over 200mp/h around the track and in the same round/time are also driving “real tourist drivers” with just 50mp/h, caravans with trailors and bicycles on the roof…. AND also tourist busses with 40 or more people on board with around 30mp/h!!!! And don`t forget those motorcycle super bikers…!!!!
    Just try to imagine you are speeding on a long right hand bend with around (only) 100mp/h and within 2 seconds a big bus is in front and a caravan is just trying to overtake the bus…… the race track is too smal for all 3!!!!!!

    That’s just to give you an idea whats going on there…insanity!

    Wolfarossa
    FORZA FERRARI
     
  18. JaguarXJ6

    JaguarXJ6 F1 Veteran

    Feb 12, 2003
    5,439
    Black Hawk, CO
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    Sunny
    Those facts are all right and true.. however...

    Speed limits don't stop people from giving up the right of way or preventing them from performing passing manuevers, race track open to the public, scenic or not.

    Controlling the flow of traffic, not setting a speed limit, is the way to end that insanity.

    The roads here and elsewhere rely on speed to make up for the lack of training in order to control traffic and it just DOESN'T work and it won't there either :(

    Sunny
     
  19. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
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    Mar 17, 2002
    3,603
    Dallas, TX, USA
    Here's what I'd do first... since it would be easy... I'd not release any cars for 5 minutes... then I'd slowly release the queued cars in order of speed (as best as I could tell, giving preference to those with helmets)... then I'd release nobody for 5 minutes... and repeat. Greatly reducing the necessary passes and encouraging helmets would be much more of a lifesaver than unenforced speed limits (which will just add to the problem, since it creates more speed diversity).
     
  20. udalmia

    udalmia Guest

    why should tour buses and "non-exotic" cars be allowed on the racetrack? it might be hard to "filter" them but i'm sure a system can be derived
     
  21. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Oct 3, 2002
    45,859
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    Andreas
    Allow tourists in the morning and racers in the afternoon. Or flip flop every two hours. Shouldn't be hard.

    I came by the Ring a few years ago and really wanted to do a tourist lap in my rental, but was intimidated by the real racers. I agree not separating the slow and fast vehicles is insanity.

    PS: I just recovered from a mild shock the German Autobahn Police was giving me by zooming onto the rear of my car on the Autobahn. Tailgated by the police? Only in Germany. In hindsight it was fun though.
    :)
     

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