Ocassional "ticking" noise from 360 engine | FerrariChat
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Ocassional "ticking" noise from 360 engine

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Tipo815, Sep 19, 2004.

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  1. Tipo815

    Tipo815 F1 Rookie

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    #1 Tipo815, Sep 19, 2004
    A new (ocassional) ticking noise has developed in my '00 360 engine. It started after a rather aggressive race with a Z06 the other night. I did hit the rev limiter (unfortunately). I recalled a post by someone about this sympton just before a cam variator broke or something to do with a cam variator. I started the engine a few days later and the ticking noise was gone. Drove it today and did not hear it on cold start up. After about 45 minutes of driving I could hear it ticking. Consequently, it is not a loud noise, however, it is loud enough for me to hear it since I listen for every creak and groan. I stopped somewhere for 30 minutes and then came out and started the engine again. No noise. I originally thought it might be an exhaust or header leak but since it is not consistent I have ruled that out. Most exhaust leaks do not come and go. Also, no engine warning lights to date. Any ideas or suggestions?
     
  2. Gary(SF)

    Gary(SF) F1 Rookie

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    #2 Gary(SF), Sep 19, 2004
    Can't help with the sound, but how did you do against the Vette?
     
  3. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #3 tbakowsky, Sep 19, 2004
    How is the oil pressure? Is the gauge reading in the same place it always has?
     
  4. Diablo

    Diablo Formula Junior

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    #4 Diablo, Sep 19, 2004
    Have someone take a look at the left (5-8) bank timing belt tensioner.

    I had seen one cracked before.
     
  5. Tipo815

    Tipo815 F1 Rookie

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    #5 Tipo815, Sep 19, 2004
    He passed me at 100+ and I took off after him. I maintained the separation but could not really pull on him. We both backed off around 140.
     
  6. Tipo815

    Tipo815 F1 Rookie

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    #6 Tipo815, Sep 19, 2004
    Yes. Same place as always. I drove the car again today and the same thing happened. Heard the noise for a while. Stopped and then started again 60 minutes later. No noise. Very strange.
     
  7. Tipo815

    Tipo815 F1 Rookie

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    #7 Tipo815, Sep 19, 2004
    Ok. Thanks for the recommendation.
     
  8. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #8 tbakowsky, Sep 19, 2004
    This nosie by you're discrption, sounds almost like a "lifter" loosing it's oil prime once the oil increases in temperature. I have seen this on 355's aswell but it's not common. Just an idea...
     
  9. Tipo815

    Tipo815 F1 Rookie

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    #9 Tipo815, Sep 20, 2004
    As a first step a mechanic (Italian who used to work at the factory) at a local shop advised me to change the oil. He actually advised AGAINST using Shell Helix which is what I have in the car now. I've run the car on some exceedingly hot days and perhaps the oil has broken down. Another possibility was a lack of lubrication inside the cam variator. At least that is what I think he said. He was showing me some parts in a box and trying his best to explain what it might be. I probably only caught 50% of the explanantion.
     
  10. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    #10 ferrarifixer, Sep 20, 2004
    I'll back up the comment about ditching the helix. I use Castrol R synthetic 10w60 without trouble. I think a lifter is the most likely source of the problem, and an oil change is the first course of action.

    A cracked tensioner wouldn't cause a ticking noise, but is still worth checking as it is common.

    It could still be a header or a sample plug etc.

    It could also be a particularly noisy injector...check with a stethoscope.
     
  11. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #11 tbakowsky, Sep 20, 2004
    Does the 360 also have header problems like the 355? I haven't yet heard of any up in Canada that has had one burn through..Do you guys ever see it? If so how common is it?
     
  12. Tipo815

    Tipo815 F1 Rookie

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    #12 Tipo815, Sep 20, 2004
    That is what the Ferrari factory mechanic recommended - 10W-60. I did not know they even made that weight! Wonder why he (and you) are advising against Helix. I thought it was supposed to be something special. I guess that's marketing for you!
     
  13. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    #13 ferrarifixer, Sep 20, 2004
    Headers have been giving trouble on 360C (identical to road car) after about 100 hours track work. They blow out the sample plugs through vibration. Had one do it this weekend at a race track in the middle of nowhere. (www.procar.com.au image gallery, Mallala, Nations cup)

    Didn't have welder on board the truck so had to pack car into it and go to the city (Adelaide) to get it welded. Did the repair in situ in about an hour, but if it had been a lower plug underneath it gets harder.....

    The helix is like gnats pi55. I only use it if the owner requests it....it comes in a pretty case with the Ferrari logo on it....and as for the TV ad with the F1 car and F50 driving across water.......pah!! yeah right......
     
  14. Tipo815

    Tipo815 F1 Rookie

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    #14 Tipo815, Sep 20, 2004
    Phil - It appears that Castrol USA may not offer Castrol R Synthetic in a 10W-60. I have spoken with two Castrol distributors in California and they have never even heard of it. I am planning to call Castrol USA directly tomorrow (since they are on the east coast) and see if they can help me. I may have to acquire it from overseas directly.
     
  15. Gary(SF)

    Gary(SF) F1 Rookie

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    #15 Gary(SF), Sep 20, 2004
    My E46 M3 uses Castrol 10W-60, available only from the dealer. My opinion has always been to use what the factory recommends, so I use the Helix.

    Gary
     
  16. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    #16 ferrarifixer, Sep 21, 2004
    My experience is mainly for track Ferraris. I discovered the 360C all had oil temp/pressure problems in hot climates on the track. So I moved to a heavier oil which immediately lowered temps and stopped the occasional 0 bar oil pressure spikes showing on the datalogging.

    Then, once the team became involved in the 360 N-GT program with Michelotto, they confirmed the problem and all the 360 GT series use a 10w60. It doesn't have to be Castrol, but it has to be a good quality synthetic for extreme conditions.

    I've noticed that the helix takes a significantly longer time to fill the lifters when starting a fresh engine for the first time. Sometimes 10 minutes of running is required to get them all quiet. The 10w60 does the job during oil prime cranking before the engine is even fired up.
     
  17. Gary(SF)

    Gary(SF) F1 Rookie

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    #17 Gary(SF), Sep 21, 2004
    That's strange. I would think that would be a factor of base weight, and that a 10W would take a little bit longer than a 5W on a cold start. I don't understand that one at all.

    Gary
     
  18. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #18 Steve Magnusson, Sep 21, 2004
    (Just speculation, but how about) when cold, the 5W is so thin (and the clearances in the lifter's internal valving mechanisms have naturally changed) such that the lifter is having a hard time "capturing" enough oil to fill up -- i.e., it's getting a lot of (thin) oil delivered to it and passed thru it, but it never fills up (until it heats up a bit and the internal clearances change).
     
  19. 4i2fly

    4i2fly Formula 3

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    #19 4i2fly, Sep 21, 2004
    Yes, but this problem seems different than when putting fresh oil. The lifter? make the ticking noise after the car has had a spirited run in the normal or high operating temperatures.

    Does the noise come on when it is idling or running through gears. Could it be the oil pump itself not supplying enough oil pressure?
     
  20. redhead

    redhead F1 Rookie

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    #20 redhead, Sep 21, 2004
    Side note-
    Why does the Factory now use shell? Look at the side of the F1 Cars. Like Jefferey said, its all Marketing. All you Mazerati owners will notice that the recomened oil is still good ol' Agip. So, thats what we use in everything, F and M cars. 5w-40 of course.
     
  21. Tipo815

    Tipo815 F1 Rookie

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    #21 Tipo815, Sep 21, 2004
    I only hear it at idle. It seems to disappear as the rpms increase, however, I have a Capristo exhaust which also drowns out all other noises as the rpms climb! :)
     
  22. Tipo815

    Tipo815 F1 Rookie

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    #22 Tipo815, Sep 21, 2004
    You know what's even more funny. I heard that Shell may discontinue their sponsorship of Ferrari in the very near future. Too expensive. Rumored to replace them is Petronis - the Malaysian oil company. Who wants odds that the recommended oil will change again.
     
  23. Gary(SF)

    Gary(SF) F1 Rookie

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    #23 Gary(SF), Sep 21, 2004
    I'd still be very surprised if Ferrari recommended oil that was inferior or unsuitable. Too much warranty exposure, for one thing.

    Gary
     

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