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Occasional no start

Discussion in '348/355' started by Nader, Nov 21, 2016.

  1. Nader

    Nader Formula Junior
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    Feb 12, 2011
    990
    East of Seattle
    Sometimes, I switch the ignition on, get all the customary start up dash lights, hear the fuel pump, then turn to start and there's a distant click and loss of all electrical power. Acting like it blew a big fuse. Turn the key off, try again and it's like there's no battery attached, completely dead. This is with a fresh Die-Hard AGM battery.

    I disconnect the negative lead on the battery, reconnect, and it will start right up. It's happened enough that turning the key feels like Russian Roulette. Only other preexisting issue is an E1 code for the A/C. Haven't addressed that yet, it's next on the list.

    Any ideas for the no-start, reversible complete electrical shutdown situation?
     
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  3. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
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    Jeff B.
    If you get no response at all to turning the key to the START position (no "click"), then you probably have a bad connection at one of your battery terminals, or possibly at the bullet terminal in the positive cable. Should be fairly easy to identify and repair. 348's are also well known for problems with a current drop inside the ignition switch,but I believe this is always associated with a "clicking" sound from the solenoid. Not too difficult or expensive to correct.
     
  4. Nader

    Nader Formula Junior
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    Feb 12, 2011
    990
    East of Seattle
    Thanks, Jeff. Where is this "bullet terminal" in the positive cable?

    Come to think of it, I don't know if this situation just started after changing the battery a week ago or if it was there before. Maybe I need to go tighten things up...
     
  5. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
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    Jeff B.
    Slight correction, I just looked in the drawer of junk in my garage and found the original cable from my 348 - it's the negative cable, not the positive cable. The bullet connector is approximately 22" from the negative battery terminal. The thing is, the bullet connector is between the battery terminal and the bolt-on connections to the frame, so if the bullet connector is loose or dirty, the battery isn't properly grounded. I believe it's common practice to replace the "jointed" cable with solid/continuous cable. Remember that both the frame and the engine/subframe need to be solidly grounded to insure electrical continuity.
     
  6. harleyx49

    harleyx49 Karting

    Jun 26, 2013
    119
    Hutchinson, MN
    Full Name:
    Mike
    I had a similar situation with my 348 of not always starting plus getting the CEL frequently.
    I look at the battery cables and found that the bolt used to ground the negative Bullet cable to the frame was very corroded.
    I clean the cable and bolt and reinstalled, have not had any issues for quit awhile until this Fall when my battery stop holding a charge , I will replace it this spring when I take it out of storage.
     
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  8. Jasonberkeley

    Jasonberkeley Formula 3
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    Apr 23, 2017
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    Jason Berkeley
    So there are a series of threads on this topic, this one being one of the more recent so i'll post this here. Went for an almost three hour long social distancing rally with about 15 other cars. We stopped after nearly two hours, and I had the problem described above in that turn the key, all the lights come on, rotate all the way to start and nothing. No crank. After trying a few times, it finally cranked, caught right away and off I went. Drove another hour plus, got home, pulled it into the garage, shut it off and figured I would try to restart. Nothing. Same as earlier.

    Went inside, read a few threads with majority of fixes pointing to the bullet connector. Tried starting it and it started since it had been 30-40 minutes and everything had cooled off. Popped off the airbox, pulled it apart, a little green corrosion coating on the female side. Male side wasnt too bad. Sanded everything down so shiny metal on both sides, and buttoned it back up. Started no problem.

    i'll report back after going for a long drive and seeing if the problem is resolved.

    Question on the bullet connector: there doesn't seem to be any real locking or unlocking mechanism for this for the male to female. Can someone please post a pic of theirs and let me know if there is and i'm just missing something?

    Thanks as always to everyone for posting this stuff. I would have had no idea where to start looking on the car, and would have started pulling ignition and sensor connectors apart if it wasn't for everyone taking the time to post their problems and solutions!

    Jason
     
  9. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 10, 2002
    22,630
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    That's why we get rid of the bullet connectors! And check your grounds. especially remove and refresh the giant braided engine ground
     
  10. Jasonberkeley

    Jasonberkeley Formula 3
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    Gotcha! Does someone make an off-the-shelf one piece cable that goes from the battery to the starter? And just so i'm clear, replace the giant braided engine ground with a new oem piece?

    Thanks!
     
  11. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
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    Jeff B.
    Does your 348 have a front battery or a rear battery?

    Assuming it has a rear battery, and an original grounding cable, there should be a connector like this under the air cleaner, as I recall. It looks fairly stout, but the actual metal-to-metal contact surface is tiny! When I saw this, I immediately replaced the entire cable (see post #4 above). This was many years ago, so forgive me if I can't remember the exact details. This is my original battery cable, which I found in a drawer in my garage. Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  13. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 31, 2006
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    Wade O.
    Mine was broken and tie-strapped together. So I replaced the whole thing with a standard negative battery cable. But I miss having the Quick Disconnect which was very convenient for the rear mounted battery.

    It original is secured by a clamp mounted on the wheel well liner (between the liner and the battery.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  14. steved033

    steved033 F1 Rookie
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    Apr 12, 2017
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    Have you done the remote starter relay? I was getting the same thing, and narrowed it down the the voltage drop it takes to activate the solenoid by running all the way up to the key and all the way back to the solenoid. I did this, and it's been spot on ever since. I even disassembled the starter solenoid, and cleaned everything inside. That was the fix for about 3 days.

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/348-starter-relay-modification.202861/

    sjd
     
  15. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
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    Wade, just out of curiosity, are you aware that the male copper contact pin in your first picture is pushed in at least 1/2" from where it is supposed to be seated? The end of the pin should be flush with the end of the plastic housing. As shown, the male and female portions of the pins will never make electrical connection.
     
  16. Jasonberkeley

    Jasonberkeley Formula 3
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    Rear battery.
     
  17. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    No just unbolt it clean it reinstall assuming it is in good condition.
     
  18. Jasonberkeley

    Jasonberkeley Formula 3
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    Got it. Thank you!

    one last question: is there some kind of positive lock on the bullet connector?
     
  19. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Rookie
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    Its magnetic. Pretty lousy solution I think. I have one bullet 8 inches from the negative terminal and another bullet under the air box.
     
  20. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Good point. It was working okay until I saw the zip tie and thought "what's that all about?". As I took it apart that's when I found part of the plastic part (bakelite?) was broken and missing.

    I noticed that the 360 Challenge uses a similar setup, and was hoping to source a replacement connector alone. No luck...


    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  21. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Rookie
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    Welding supply places have similar connectors designed for 200-300 amps. May be an option. They typically key and twist, which is better as well.

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  22. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    No on bullet...part of reason why they fail. Good idea, bad execution,factory never fixes anything.
     
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  23. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 10, 2002
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    My welders use these and they never come apart but they also do not live in vibration auto environment. Use with great caution. We always use 1 piece of 2 gauge wire...no failures!
     
  24. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Rookie
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    Solid wire is best for sure and if needed a screw type terminal fitting like used on boats for a disconnect is optimal. Putting terminals on and off will eventually damage the lugs and posts and they won't hold. Some disconnect is not a bad idea.I was posting the bullet type as that is what was discussed.

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  25. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic Formula 3
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    Dec 22, 2011
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    If, when you have no crank, the lights in the instrument panel are on and bright, the problem is probably not in the battery cables and the large connectors but more likely in the 9-pin connector in the engine compartment, left side, near the suspension tower. The wire (thicker white) from the key to the starter solenoid goes through this connector and the pins for it may be corroded or partially burnt due to fairly large current in the white wire. Have a good look at it. When I bough my 348 it acted the same as you described and I found that the problem was in the 9-pin connector, the pins for the mentioned white wire.

    If, however, all instrument lights go off when you try to crank, the problem is somewhere in the battery cable connections.
     
  26. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Rookie
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    Miro, what part number is that 9 pin connector/block? Tried to find it in the diagram but not sure where it is in the parts diagram, do you have a picture from your car of it perhaps?
     
  27. Jasonberkeley

    Jasonberkeley Formula 3
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    Thanks, I will take a look. Do you happen to have a photo you could share showing exactly where this is?

    One more question to the group: any downside to putting some di-electric grease in either the bullet connector or the 9 pin connector?

    Thank you!
     
  28. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Rookie
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    I use Stabilant, is has anti corrosion properties and if it helps conductivity as they say then great, di-electric does not it helps with corrosion only.
     

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