OEM or Conversion

I'd give all my tomorrows for one more yesterday.

 

If I was going to buy one car. One car that would be the only car, forever. It would be a CGT.

 

hated driving my cgt on the street and i wasnt good enough to take it on a track.
the countach is tough unless you spend 30 minutes driving to warm it up. once its been going for 30 minutes it changes personality. love my countach.

 

Another issue with conversions is the quality of the conversion. Was it done by someone who actually knows what they are doing? Did the right parts get changed? For instance, the F1 throwout bearing uses a different fluid than the manual throwout bearing. Did this get changed or is it still using the original F1 part? This might not matter until the seals in the system break down and start leaking. Then it's time to pull out the transaxle. For the 430, there's the ediff thing (not a 430 owner so not sure exactly what this is called) with several ways to skin the cat and I'm sure some are better than others.

The bottom line in the conversion is that it could have been done on the cheap, by an amateur, by a hack, or by an expert with original OEM parts. The variety is pretty much endless so it's a caveat emptor.

 

But is that actually the case? My understanding is that there is not a readily available supply of parts for manual conversions, which is why companies have begin developing non-OEM solutions. This would be especially true for cars that had an extremely low take rate in manual form, like the 599. I think that the dichotomy that you have outlined is one reason why a factory manual car is always going to be more highly valued than an aftermarket conversion, the OEM solution is preferred. On the other hand, there isn't anything approaching a sufficient supply to cover everyone who wished that they had a manual F430, F355, 599, 575, etc. You could buy an F1-equipped car and then convert it for $40k, drive it until the wheels fall off to enjoy your MT experience, and not have to worry about destroying the value of a low-mileage OEM manual example.

 

A Ferrari with high mileage..is a Ferrari with high milage..doesn't matter manual or F1..they become kriptonite.

Let put this to you. 2006 Ferrari F430 factory manual car..blue on tan
.coupe the car is stunning. I just did all ball joints..New tires..engine mounts, all fluids..alignment. 63k kilometers..euro spec car. What would you pay..

 

The same can be said if any repair really.

 

Disagree… I’m on my second and it’s exhilarating to drive, anywhere.
I shipped mine to Monterey Car Week just this past weekend and drove it everywhere. Yes it was painful on the hills with the clutch, but that effort and work makes it that much more rewarding. It’s not that hard to drive if it is respected within the confines of its limits.


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First CGT I owned for 7 years ran just fine, just regular annuals.
Sure, a rear main seal leak can happen, shocks can leak, and a clutch may need to be changed. But that goes for any Porsche. Just drive it and drive it well.


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With regard to parts availability, you are definitely right. I don't think it changes the hierarchy of preferences though - may just effect the supply/demand metric more there. And yes, the V12 cars are far more challenging to source at this point, and to your point, the 599 is particularly hard because factory gated cars have different upper and lower consoles.

I'm more familiar with the V12 side of the conversation, and at some point (soon), the OEM parts will only be obtained through cannibalizing written-off 550s for their parts. The problem there would be if 550s continue to appreciate or even stick where they are, it would become less likely that they become parts cars. So maybe 1-3 new, complete packages per year may trickle in?

All this to say, my perspective on F1 conversions is pretty simple: if it can't be done with OEM parts, I'll just leave a car as-is. If I absolutely, positively need a manual and OEM parts aren't available or would take an indefinite amount of time to source that I'm not willing to commit to, I'm swapping cars. It's that important to me. Obviously not everyone cares that much, but the compromise in authenticity strays too far for me otherwise.

 

This is really important too. Top specialists and experts are worth their weight in gold!

 

My pick up does not look like that.

 

Still cheaper than a battery in a 918.... La Ferrari or p1 which all exceed 200k.

 

I can appreciate a purist view with OEM Parts. In the case of the 599 I believe fewer than 35 were ever made by Ferrari with a 6-speed manual. Since then maybe a handful were converted aftermarket using what OEM parts could be sourced. But as noted those spares are gone and cannibalizing from the ~35 would be the only option. Chassis 51605 currently offered for sale by Colleen Sheehan uses OEM. If I read the car listing correctly - quoted below - that conversion soup to nuts was around $100k.

2007 Ferrari 599 GTB s/n 151605 features a conversion to a 6-speed manual trans done by European Auto Group, San Antonio, Texas using a Factory 599 GTB transaxle with OEM brackets and clutch assembly with a Factory duplicated shift gate. The total invoice was $84,990.00. The electronics were updated and made compatible with the 6 speed gearbox by Rod Drew’s Francorchamps of America, 935 Sunset Drive, Costa Mesa. The total invoice was $19,551.33 at 1,180 miles.

EAG did post last week that they're offering a non-OEM version that has improvements. FWIW - and I have no ties here at all - this was the description:

We just completed our first 599.2 manual conversion which utilizes our proprietary improved design on the OEM direct linkage to help reduce the nasty vibrations, slop, and clatter that you get with the OEM design. We have added and modified a few components to the system that reduce this significantly and improve the overall driving experience of the gated manual 599.

 

The first time I drove a Ferrari (430, F1) it was on a track. After that experience I wondered how it could be any real fun to drive it, or especially any newer model, on the street. Track driving is where it's at with these cars. As you mentioned I have no desire to do 100+ mph blasts on the freeway and risk jail time, or something stupid happening. Even finding good roads to drive on in the mountains or hills around town, there is a lot of risk that I just don't see as being worth it (blind two-lane corners, etc). The way you can push these cars (and yourself) in a controlled environment is the most fun, you will ever have, anywhere. Luckily I live in a place where this is very easy to do, for anyone.

I drove a CGT about five miles many years ago. It was the first supercar I had been in. The differences are staggering and do make it especially intimidating to drive, anywhere. I imagine it's something you could get used to if you drive it enough, but I wanted nothing to do with driving those cars after that experience.

 

@Doug. - That's why I love my gated 360 Spider. It's not overpowering and can be a lot of fun at regular road speeds. Find a bit of a twisty and it really shines. Any more car would be a waste on the roads. Any less and it wouldn't be as much fun. Being gated, it takes a bit more effort and skill to drive at any speed. A very entertaining car.

 

very enjoyable...easy to argue its all one needs on the streets for sure

 

And it is perhaps most exciting to hear that, because the 360 has always been my dream car. The poster car for me.

It's the only Ferrari I feel like I HAVE to own and experience. Maybe even keep forever. I definitely feel like it would be perfectly suitable for me because it has good power without being ridiculous, and an excellent, nimble chassis that is fun to drive, period. Not to mention, the best car design of ALL TIME! Just look at it!

 

They went up in price? A customer had his battery replaced in the LaFerrari..was a 70k fix. Not chump change that's for sure..buy definatly not 200k..

 

They are one of best and most usable Ferrari's that's for sure.

 

I've bought one with a 200k bill.

 

Geez..how long ago?

 

I think that one was 2020

 

In my experience, aftermarket exhaust do not add value to Ferrari and many times reduce value when the OEM systems are not available to re-install.

Not quoting actual prices…

$70k option would have been a rebuilt battery that took extensive time to source, having the car down for many months.

$250k option would have been for a new replacement battery, available at the time in short(er) order.


Steve

 

Ahh..makes sense now..gotcha.. thank you.