Of Felipe and Lewis (great reading from a F1 journalist)

Mid fielder? Let's take a look at this year's results so far...

Melbourne- Problems in Q2, had to switch engine, started last. FINISHED 6TH.
Malaysia- Took pole in qualifying, made mistake in race and finished 5th.
Bahrain- Took pole in qualifying and went on the win the race.
Spain- Took pole in qualifying and went on to win the race.

That makes 3 poles and 2 wins so far this season. I don't see this guy being a "mid-fielder" or driving for Super Aguri any time soon.

 

Massa needs to prove himself in the rain before I take him out of midfield status

 

err, in easily the fastest car on the grid...that's a big factor that you've left out..

 

from the article...'Massa has become (was born to be) integral in Ferrari'..'when you think Massa, you think Ferrari' ...err, yeah, sure, whatever... credibility, you want to talk about credibility? all journo's have one thing in common, the desire to get their **** opinion over everyone else's. give me a break.

 

and i don't understand the psychology of those who think Massa is all of a sudden 'god'...even MS caliber as you've even aluded to. He's had more than a season with Ferrari, and he is in the fastest car on the grid for crying out loud! So i ask you, could it really be that he really has attained MS level driving ability, or could it be that his car is the reason for his 'enlightenment'??? Do you remember his driving early last season? I watched those races again recently...OMG, the guy could barely get the car around the track without locking the tires, or getting the car bent out of shape... And you lot are dissing on Kimi, a guy who's had relatively little time in the Ferrari, team and car, and the bridgestones??? Were it not for the DNF, he'd either be leading the points, or second. Jeesh! Sure, Kimi is not quite 'there', but you lot saying it's been a HUGE DISAPPOINTMENT, err, don't understand THAT psychology!

 

He still got it done didn't he? Why should we care about what might have happened if he was in a different car? It doesn't matter, as long as the job gets done.

 

well you left that out in your assessment of his ultimate driving ability...being in the fastest car has A LOT to do with it, so it is relevant in the discussion.

 

I completely disagree with this statement. Lewis Hamilton told Ron Dennis in 1994, when he was just 9 that he wanted to be a McLaren driver. In 1998 he was signed to the McLaren driver development support programme, the contract including a future option of an F1 seat, making 13-year-old Hamilton the youngest ever driver to secure a F1 contract. I remember that happening. So, for the last 9 years whenever I have heard Lewis Hamilton mentioned I have thought of McLaren. He has been groomed to be a McLaren driver for his whole life and I would be very surprised if he ever moved to another team.

 

i wish people would stop saying anyone is going to be the next MS.

When any one of the current drivers wins 4 or 5 championships... then lets start guessing who is the next MS.

LH hasn't even completed one season in F1... stop speculating after 5 races that he is the next MS... he has had a great start... but there sure is many more races in this season... and many more in his career. He could make a career ending mistake by switching teams and getting stuck in a bad car or a bad team. Heck, who knows, next hear the mclarens could be the most unreliable cars... who knows! MS... switched teams, and pretty much built ferraris team to who they are today. MS, is a very special character.

Massa (even though he is my fav) still has made some mistakes and has a long way to go before he is the next MS

I think Massas attitude is probably the closest to MS... but he still has to bag alot of championships before he is even close to being MS.

 

Alonso passed the rainmaster (MS) on the outside of a turn in the rain of Hungary last year. The same GP where MS lapped his useless sidekick.

Hamilton I haven't seen driving in the rain yet, but if he does that like anything else he does in a F1, I have no worries.

 

It is real straightforward, Ron.

Irvine and Rubens both finished 2nd in the WDC, Irvine nearly won it in 1999. Yet neither of them was anywhere near the talent of the top drivers at the time. No one would mistake Irvine for Schumacher or Hakkinan nor would anyone mistake Rubens for Alonso or Kimi. Both of them were midlevel drivers who were fortunate to be driving the best car on the grid.

Massa, similarly, had an undistinguished and unremarkeable career prior to joining Ferrari. Thus far, as Tifosi12 has pointed out, he has done little to suggest that he is anything more than a typical test driver, fast in testing and only able to win from pole if he doesn't have to pass a frontrunner.

For many of us, we see Massa as no different than Rubens or Irvine, a midlevel driver whose performance is being enormously flattered by the car. I don't see Massa winning races, I see a Ferrari winning races when driven by a driver who doesn't make an error. I don't think I ever saw Michael Schumacher turn a pole position into a fifth place finish without some mechanical difficulty. Nor do I recall ever seeing Hakkinan sit on the tail of a slower car as Massa did against Fisi in the season opener for how many? 20 laps? It is difficult to consider Massa as a talent along the lines of Kimi, Alonso, and yes even Hamilton when he mixes strong performances like Spain with mediocre performances as he has done so many times driving the Ferrari, including twice this season out of 4 races.

Massa looks good when he sits on pole in a car a good half a second faster than any other on the grid, save his teammate's. He looks pretty mediocre when he has to pass a fast car or, god forbid, it rains.

Monaco is going to be an eye opener for quite a few in regards to Massa. He has been unremarkeable at that track his entire career, Kimi and Alonso, on the other hand, are both winners there as is Hamilton. Monaco has a tendency to separate the racers for the field-fillers. We'll see how much Massa has improved then.

 

True. And it could be an eye opener for me if Massa wins it. At that point I would start to take him seriously because you don't win Monaco unless you have talent.

 

or unless your name is Panis

 

lewis is very talented and i hope that he will go the RED way and take raikkonens place,i believe that could become a world champion IF he enters the ferrari team,he could basically be formula1's tiger wood or michael jordan and yes i believe that he could be as good as MS,i believe in this kid.

 

...after his pitstop where they forgot to add the wheel nut. Yup, clearly a driver error...

 

by your logic... i guess Kimi is a mid fielder or worse(espeicially since he is currently shadowing a lowly test driver)... he is meerly being flattered by the car... As is Alonso... and of course Hammilton. They are all products of there supperior cars right? Stick any of them in a spyker and they will be pretty much where spyker is now.

 

That right rear wheel changer was my hero that race, I laughed so hard whenAlonso retired .

 

Schumi was on Bridgestone rubber which was obviously the inferior tire. I believe Schumi was the only Bridgestone runner in the top 12 for the first quarter of the race. The Michelins dominated the early part of that race and Schumacher would have easily won if he had them.

 

Your comment makes no sense. I am not saying that Hamilton, Alonso or Kimi would win races in a Spyker. Put Kimi or Alonso or Hamilton in a Spyker and they will run circles around the current drivers. Put Massa in a Spyker and he will go back to being the driver he was at Sauber.

Kimi was a standout when driving a Sauber as was Alonso when driving for Minardi. Massa was completely unremarkeable prior to joining Ferrari, he had trouble outrunning Fisichella let alone Nick Heidfeld. Kimi and Alonso have proven themselves to be adept drivers in a wide range of track conditions and neither of them has shown any difficulty in passing other front-running cars. Both of them have managed to win races in cars other than Ferrari. Your boy Massa disappears during the wet and can't find his way past a front runner to save his life. His weaknesses as a driver are well documented and his performance thus far in 2007 has been mixed at best. I can't recall ever seeing Kimi turn a pole position into a fifth place finish in a car with no mechanical problems. Can you? Massa is just another Rubens or Eddie Irvine.

And as far as test drivers go, I recall Anthony Davidson outpacing JB and Rubens at Honda at times during testing as well as Alex Wurz outpacing Kimi and JPM at McLaren. I doubt anyone seriously considers swapping those drivers.

The only argument you have is with Hamilton, we can't say for certain how good he is however I have been following F1 for over 30 years and I think I can make an educated guess on a talent when I see one. I will take Hamilton over Massa any day of the week and twice in Sunday.

But don't take my word for it, take the word of the F1 journalists. You would be hard-pressed to find many who don't rate Kimi and Alonso as head of the pack.

 

I'll take Massa for about another 3 or 4 races as a better driver than Hamilton. Massa despite his flaws has a lot of experience in F1. After that Hamilton will blow away Massa and make for a very interesting finale to the season.
I still wonder if Alonso is really at the head of the pack, he hasn't been destroying his rookie teammate, and his move at Spain on the first turn this weekend proved it. His qualifying performance was lousy considering how little fuel he was suspected to have.

 

You wouldn't know it by the way Hamilton took measure of him in Malaysia.

 

twice, in the same corner

 

point taken... especially with your 30 years of service watching formula one.

LOL

Now i do agree with you that many people will rate Kimi and Alonso as the head of the pack, and i cant disagree with them. I am not saying that Masa is ahead of either one of them. personally (and my opinon means nothing) i think that the 4 drivers are close. I wouldn't go so far as to call Masa a midpack driver... and i wouldn't call Hamilton the next MS. I think all four are great drivers. on a rating scale i would say that Kimi and alonso are tied for first and masa and hamilton are tied. Hamilton has some serious moves that are going to shake the other three up. But i think that Masa is going to be conservative and consitant (not that hamilton isn't) and he is going to remain a podium contender. Again, just my opinon...

by they way... im a Masa fan and i hope he takes the championhip... there i said it