How many does the workshop manual suggest that the T takes for the service? I am negotiating with a local shop and figure there is $1500 (Ricambi) in parts and would like to estimate a labor charge. Thanks! Greg
In my experience if you are only going to do the "major" (whatever that means) then you should budget for about 40-60 hrs labor. If you are going to get everything "fixed" that I'm sure your t probably needs to be fixed then it goes up to about 120-160 hrs labor-maybe more. So depending on who does all this and what rate they charge, this second option, which is the one I suggest, will be somewhere between $15k to $25k + parts. Alot I know but once you really get your car truly fixed it will drive better than new, will be reliable, and will go many years before you need nothing more than just a belt and tensioner change (7 yrs). Most Mondi owners don't want to spend this kind of $$ on their cars so consequently they don't garner much respect relative to the residual value of the car. Too bad 'cause when they're right they're f*#@king amazing.
Steve, Wow, you're right that is a large amount and close to what the car actually cost so can understand why Mondi owners are reluctant to do the full repair. Cheers, Greg
I assume they work on Ferraris and have done these services in the past. If this is not the case find a service center that has done this kind of work. If it is done wrong you will have to drop the engine again at that takes time and money. I have been there you just have to bite the bullet and do what is required during the service in order for it to run perfectly.
As TMan has said it can get to be a lot of hours depending on the condition of your car. Find a good shop and discuss with them your goals for the car. A perfect, as new Ferrari will take a lot of hours. A driver, that gets nuanced and will be between you and them and your threshold for less than perfect. For example my front end bushings are showing no slop but are original, my shop said they will likely need to be replaced at the next service. If I had the money and time to renew them at that point likely would have made a difference. These are the details plus many more like this example that you'll have to decide. Good luck.
Hi Greg, Just to add to what the previous fellas have said, you might want to read this thread on Major Service Costs and why: http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=365314&highlight=major+service As much as I like the Mondial t, I love my 88 3.2 just alittle more because its more of a DIYS car! No engine out required, just need to be brave enough to get in there and do things. Before I bought my Mondial, I use to always rely on the dealer technicians and mechanics to do everything on my cars. Now, I read alot, self taught the things I can do, know my limits, and keep the really difficult stuff for the professionals. This helps me keep my cost down and makes owning an old classic car alot more enjoyable. It scares me to think that I might have to dish out $15k-25k on maintenance, that's insane because I don't make that kind of money but that's the reality. I know I have replaced alot of things on my car already from the RicambiAmerica Major service kit I purchased from Daniel last year -minus timing belts and tensioners. I Plan to do that before Mondipalooza but my car is running so well I don't want to mess with a good thing. Total DIY garage time for me is probably in the 100+hrs range since I've owned my car but I have learned so much from getting in there and replacing things that were in need. Anyways, sorry for the long winded response, but don't let it overwhelm you, go slow, change what needs to be changed within your budget. Its funny how these cars get better and better with ownership because by the time you want to sell it, its in almost perfect condition and better than when you bought it. Well, at lease in my case. Cheers, Mike
I guess its all relative. I had one of my loves, a 1969 Chevy short bed truck, just sitting in my warehouse, going on 10 years. Tires flat, an inch of dust and a thought that I, one day, would make her shine again. 2 months ago i said, the hell with this thought, im never going to get around to it. So i found a local shop and dropped it off for an estimate on a complete restoration. It has very little rust and it runs but the estimate came in at 40,000.00. LOL yea right. wth?? So, not willing to spend that kind of money, but also not willing to put it back in the warehouse for another 10 year slumber, i took a different approach and decided to dial back my wish list to a more reasonable expectation. We are now repairing more than replacing and we are doing it in stages. When done, it shouldn't exceed 20k. The moral of my story... if you love your Mondial, take it to an experienced shop and go in with a shotgun approach and pay the price of your expectations. If you like your Mondial, but plan to sell it within a year or two, take a more surgical approach and do just whats necessary to hold you over and expect a reflective resale price when the time comes. My car is headed over to Dave Helms for a surgical approach on some minor issues. I really love my Mondial. Theres room in the trailer Greg.
"My car is headed over to Dave Helms for a surgical approach on some minor issues. I really love my Mondial. Theres room in the trailer Greg." Good offer there Greg from Valenzo.
Greg I did spend "that" kind of money on my t-coupe and my car is spectacular now. There are a couple of reasons the costs get as high as I stated above: 1) things that should have been fixed many years ago were not so all those unfixed things add up and 2) it is actually much more cost effective to finally fix everything at once because trying to repair things one at a time from year to year is even more expensive since you have to drop the engine everytime you do something like when, for instance, you have to replace the drive gear that should have been replaced by Ferrari years ago or you have to replace your worn out motor mounts (and believe me yours are gone and OEM mounts are $5,000/pr), and on and on. The thing is that even the least expensive Ferrari is still a Ferrari and the price of ownership can be steep. But if you love your car and want to keep it and really enjoy it for what it is and what it represents, then that one time shock of getting everything right is worth it because it will now be a Ferrari worth keeping for many years if one so desires.
as stated earlier the 3.2 and 3.0 qv and the two valve used in the 308 and mondial is a diy dream come true.if you follow instructions very carefully the belts,tensioners,water pump,clutch are a breeze to replace.but be warned! if your timing belts are not correctly timed or if a belt malfunctions because of improper installation your engine will instantly turn itself into a big pile of ferrari scrap iron.now that i have done the job and have the few special things needed i think i could do it again in a good 10 hour day.biggest issues i have had with my car are nagging electical problems.still have some to go but with patience i will succeed.its all worth every minute of the aggravation when you crank it to 7 gs and let her rip.my radio is also broken but will never be repaired.have fun and be safe
As others have stated, the engine-out adds a good bit of time to the job. I bought my 84 to be able to do my own work. I specifically ruled out a T for the engine-out reason. The most intense repair I've done in the year I've owned her was a water pump replacement. She had timing belts just before I got her, but they didn't replace the pump. I've done a good bit of electrical work. I intend to pull the engine over the winter to do all the hoses and a good cleaning, but the thing is I don't HAVE to pull the engine for this type of normal servicing. I'll be doing the 30K service soon, but see no reason not to do it myself. So much of it is just normal maintenance anyway that sould be kept up with. I'm sure Ferrari didn't intend for these to be DIY cars, but let's face it...putting $20K in a $25K car isn't good economics. As with some other of you, I'm just a normal working stiff who finally realized my dream. I knew going in that the price of admission wasn't the only costs associated. Willingness to get my hands greasy lets me sustain that dream, and happily! Steve
+1 Steve... I believe I read somewhere that most shops will charge 8 hrs for an engine out, 16 for off/on which is anywhere from $1600-$2000 even before any service can start on a Major. avg~$5500 3.2/QV vs. $7500 t conservative figures + what else they find that needs replacing. All all great cars and it comes down to whats in your budget. cheers
I didn't realize I was opening a can of worms here with this topic but obviously there are many opinions on this topic. It appears to rank right up there with changing the wheels and exhaust! Thanks again all, Greg
Seems to me that anyone who is considering 20-25k$ for a major, would be better off selling their car, and adding 5k and getting a better car with a recent major... 20-25k is just silly. Food for thought.
If your car needs 20-25k in repairs, either you bought wrong, or you haven't taken care of the car. The most that I've spent on a 30k was 12.5 and a lot had to be done, it was the first 30k after I'd bought it. Having said that, I look at the 30k service was a cost of operation, not a cost of acquisition. It's just an expensive oil change (LOL). Art
I don't think i bought mine wrong. It just needed 20k in mechanical service. My interior and ext is near perfect. I think the Mondial is worth bringing back to life. Life, as it should live, is expensive but worth it to me.
ooo i just looked at yours. very sexy. i dont normally like aftermarket wheels but yours seems to fit. nicely done.
Sadly, I don't believe price paid is any longer an indicator of quality. Even at the highest price point for these cars, most owners cannot justify the costs of maintaining them to the highest order. As a result, as I have long lamented, I sincerely doubt there is more than a handful in existence that a proper mechanic couldn't find at least 15K worth of work to do. Basically, if you think your car doesn't need anything...you aren't looking hard enough. Finding a Mondial with an exceptional service history since new...that has been over maintained by mechanics of ample skill and knowledge, is an exercise in near futility. As the years go by, the situation will only get worse. A new owner should not be fooled by a pretty paint job and clean interior. It doesn't cost much money to keep a car under a cover in a heated garage. The sad thing is, few people are willing throw gobs of money to make the car truly spectacular---especially in the current economy... As a result, the space between a good Mondial and a truly great car would intimidate a lunar mission. I long for the day that the Ferrari world gives these cars the respect they deserve and owners stop making their maintenance decisions based on numbers rather than passion. I just hope that it occurs before the vast majority of these cars cross the line from deferred maintenance to parts cars.
+10 Joe "They're cheap 'cause no one spends money on them, I don't spend money on them 'cause they're cheap." And therein lies the problem. I'm sure there are many of you out there who think I'm an idiot for spending the kind of money I spent on my car (of course that my not be the only reason people think I'm an idiot), but I have broken the cycle of the numbers game and gone with passion. I hope others will follow but I understand why you would not; however, know this, my mondi can kick your mondi's ass everyday day of the week and twice on Sunday. Ha, Ha!
When I think about it I realize I've put that money into my vehicle. I've done most of my own repairs with my local tech handling a few items and giving the car a good look over. I've spent in excess of $15K on my car, a good portion of that in parts. And as has been mentioned, the car was a no excuses driver when I purchased it. Minor oil leak. I still haven't done everything. It will need new brakes before too long and I haven't even looked at the engine mounts. I did everything I felt necessary 2 years ago to make it a reliable driver. It has been, I've put 20K miles on it. However the dollars you quote are not a joke. I didn't need to do everything I did two years ago, but I felt I should if I wanted to drive it all over the country without worry. It worked. I have no regrets. As you have said TMan, these cars are worth it. I'm hoping next winter I can drop the engine and really bring my car up a couple notches. This winter is dedicated to refreshing my 92K mile motorcycle so the Ferrari will have to live with just a thorough inspection this winter and maybe renewing the brakes.
Flame suit on. They are cheap because they have been labeled among the 10 worst cars in the History of Automobiles, and few people want them. See that video on the other post? Flame suit zipped up tight.
Nobody believes that. Not even the writers. Besides, these critics are universally referring to the Mondial 8. I had just about everything written on the 3.2 and T, the critics both then and now largely spoke glowingly of both cars.
