Official 328 GTB/GTS Market Thread

That is nice. A little dark for my taste but viva la difference. Any idea what region this car was built for?

-F

 

The VIN can be deciphered on the last pic: it is "ZFFXA19JAP0080358"; the "JAP" in digits "8,9, 10" means it was built for the japanese market.
Remember that all Ferraris built for Japan at the time are LHD, despite the country being RHD.
Same engine (= catalysed) as any US market car (= the "X" in position four)
Rgds

 

I did not know that. I know Japanese connoisseurs prefer LHD, it's a Japanese thing. But I didn't know Ferrari produced the Japanese cars that way nor did I think Japanese government allowed it. I always assumed the LHD cars were special imports. Thanks for the info.

As an aside, the special J50 model, made for the Japanese market, based on a 458 which of course was built in RHD versions for RHD markets, all of the them were built in LHD. Like I said, it's a Japanese thing.

-F

 

I know it might be of some suprise, as you would naturally think that the country driving on the left, it would import RHD cars, but the fact is that the 328s produced for Japan (and they are a "material" number: about 600 to 700 cars) were all LHD.
Not only do we have sketchy information about that markey at best, BUT they also imported later many cars from the Middle East or Europe, all LHDs...
"80358" has definitively being built for the japanese market, in Japanes specs.

A very interesting market, for which, unfortunately, we are lacking a "serving intelligence agent" here...

Rgds

 

In my opinion, the car looks absolutely amazing. Asking is €135k, but then all issues with importing from there (and the fact as you mention, that not much is know or easy to decipher about the car)

Nevertheless, amazing looking car




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This thing carries a part number identifying it as a USA or Japanese chassis only. Their cars are very close to ours in every way. Australian cars are RHD version of the same.
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There is a lot of "poser" value driving a LHD car in Japan. As anyone who has tried will tell you, it's no fun driving quickly on the left of narrow roads in a LHD car. I hated driving against the hedges here in the UK in my LHD 911E. I never saw anyone driving quickly in Japan so perhaps it's not an issue.

 

Indeed ! And it would be nice if any Japanese member could help us to know more about this market.

You can see many photos from Japan on several social network but most of them without any comment or details. If my memory serves me well I just saw may be one or two pictures of RHD 328 in Japan ( and not more imported USA )

 

I don't recall if I told you that I wrote a few E-Mails to some japanese clubs about a year ago, asking if they would agree to share datas and numbers, etc...I never received any answer.
I have in mind, but this is again one of these figures that are impossible to cross-check, that there are about 12.500 Ferraris in Japan. Probably 450 / 550 328s...
Rgds

 

Great thoughts. Yeah, the Japanese market is weird. Maybe they are really open to importing, more than you would think. I would have guessed Japan would have been very strict about what they let in, with RHD and with the mindset of protecting their local manufacturers, made in Japan.

But yeah, it's possible to see some weird stuff in Japan, from all over the world. It's like they can import anything.

As far as a local Japanese helper, I bet we could locate someone who could help. We need to find a Japanese SN fanatic who would be wiling to help. Maybe Carbon McCoy knows someone. Does he still chase SN's? Or maybe Mathias Urban might have a resource.

-F

 

To be fair, it's something beyond poser value. It's a Japanese thing, they are into Western stuff, they just eat it up and it comes out in quirky ways. And a LHD car represents that Western-ness better than RHD.

And as you said yourself, which I totally agree, driving a LHD car on RHD roads is the worst! But the Japanese collectors put up with that because they like the feel it gives them. To them, a RHD Ferrari is almost as bad as a Ferrari not built in Italy!

-F

 

I also tried Bruno with no more result !
I "know" there is Middle East, Euro and Swiss market imported to Japan but how many ???

 

Well...in fact, I have just left Matthias an hour ago. He was visiting "Retromobile" and we spent two hours chatting at a local trattoria having a glass or two. Japan is still a very difficult market to know. We catch cars and chassis numbers here and there, but no overall picture yet...
Rgds

 

Like I said to Furmano above, just spent two hours chatting with Matthias at "Retromobile"; we missed you, friend...
Rgds

 

I was there yesterday morning. I did not saw and met what I expected. And didn't found any 328 ! But admired many Miura

 

You should have told me you were coming...pity!
"Miuras" are beautiful indeed...
Best,

 

Fantastic. Retromobile is on my bucket list. Just a weird time of year to travel to Paris.

As far as Japan, one problem is, it's still a closed society, that's how they roll. Even Japanese tifosi can be guarded and closed off to outsiders. It's a Japanese thing. They love Western stuff but their cultural personality closes them off to Westerners. Sort of. We just need to find the right guy.

First off, what do you (we) want to know exactly about the Ferrari market in Japan? Are we just focused on the 328?

-F

 

Well, I have learned to stay modest, because, just like we said in old and obsolete french: "qui trop embrasse mal étreint" (more or less: "the one that kisses too much, doesn't hug very well" or: do not try to embrace a too large perspective).

Said in other words: my main center of interest are 328s, and 308s too; so I try to focus on these. This is not to say that someone having a global picture on all Ferraris would be rejected, far from it, but if we could, in a first step, have more information on the 3x8s that are in Japan, the cars built for that market and those imported there from other markets (as said by Bertrand above: many Middle East specs, Swiss specs and Euro specs 328s landed there), that would makes me happy.
Then we have to care for the other "unknown territories":
1. the "other" RHDs markets (= South Africa, Hong-Kong, Singapore, New Zealand);
2. South America...
and we would be closer to a global picture for 3x8s....

Like we said again yesterday with Matthias: the first 75% of any list is relatively easy to get, from friends, anoraks, the net...then you hit a ceiling with the last 25% which, comparatively, are incredibly difficult to catch: cars that have disappeared (accident, theft, small markets, etc...) so you think that the last 25% are in your reach, whereas in fact these are much more difficult to get than the first 75%.
Japan must be "quite a substancial part" of those last 25%...

...I would, of course, be happy to entertain you for Retromobile, should you decide to come; but
1. yes, early february is not the best part of the year.
2. Retromobile is not "the ultimate" event; as said by Bertrand above, it depends what you are looking for. My flat in Paris is a ten minutes walk by foot to "Retromobile", and I don't attend; I prefer to meet friends that do attend, outside of the place; but as for myself, I don't go there anymore...

By the way, I plan to cross your "neck of woods" in september this year on board the "California Zephyr", from San Francisco to Chicago. No time for a stop I guess, but at least this would give me some images...

Rgds

 

96.500 euros, Brian. Commissions included, which means the buyer paid it 96.500 euros. Seems a good buy, if the car is in good shape and well documented. Its is much less than what was asked for the same car by its sellers before she entered the auction circuit. On the other end, I don't know of 328s selling for more than 100.000 euros these days (except for exceptional cars such as time capsules, etc...the very last 328 built, 83136, has been for sale with Jean Lain Vintage in France for about two years at about 135.000 euros, but is not selling...).

Rgds

 

https://magazine.ferrari.com/en/cars/2019/01/08/news/ferrari-208gtb-turbo-pioneer-51889/

Maybe this official Ferrari article (that looks like a small summary of my book, there are two copies inside Ferrari factory, even if they don't need to learn from me, of course) will push up this rare cars prices.

Thanks to Nerofer for the links here below (three "328" GTB/GTS turbo at 119000 euro. I got mine, a shining 88.5 GTB ABS with 15 k miles, at 46 k in late 2014). In my opinion, the early 82-85 model should cost even more as it opens the turbo V8 era.


https://kassel.ferraridealers.com/de_de/suche-ferrari-gebraucht/1988/ferrari/classic/extracampionario-not_standard-Eberlein_Automobile_GmbH-ZFFZA28B000077738


https://kassel.ferraridealers.com/de_de/suche-ferrari-gebraucht/1988/ferrari/classic/extracampionario-not_standard-Eberlein_Automobile_GmbH-ZFFZA27B000074817


https://kassel.ferraridealers.com/de_de/suche-ferrari-gebraucht/1987/ferrari/classic/extracampionario-not_standard-Eberlein_Automobile_GmbH-ZFFZA27B000071595



ciao

 

I'm not sure there are lot of buyer at this price. And there is not much people ( even Ferrari owner ) who know this model

 

At present you are right, but Ferrari itself is starting to pump up the turbocharger (as there will be only Ferrari turbo engines soon) and the turbocharger started with that 208 model. What i know is that in 2014 the foreign market top asking price of a GTB turbo like that (Belgium, Francorchamp Ferrari official dealership) was 55 k.

In any case i didn't want to talk about prices, but about the fact that Ferrari (for the very first time ever) is talking and celebrating to the world the 208 turbo, introducing that car as "the pioneer". That will help that car market, this is undoubtful

ciao

https://magazine.ferrari.com/en/cars/2019/01/08/news/ferrari-208gtb-turbo-pioneer-51889/

 

Remind me when the time comes again. Maybe we can meet up for a handshake in Denver.

As far as finding cars in Japan, it can be done. The big challenge is the Japanese propensity to be closed off to outsiders. That's part of their culture.

Was Cornes the Japanese importer in the 80's?

-F

 

Yes Furmano, that it's noted in the "sale and service organization" book from 1985 to 1990. I don't know if any other company was Ferrari importer in Japan.

 

what do folks think of this? I have no affiliation...

https://sanfranciscosportscars.com/vehicles/784/1986-ferrari-328-gts