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Official Daytona Pics

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Iceman.1, Sep 17, 2004.

  1. TTR

    TTR F1 Rookie
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    Apparently, it has been going on for awhile already and if not yet, will probably very soon render all or most older restorations, especially those done with halfhearted efforts (i.e. paint, interior and some minimal detail sorting to receive a “Platinum”) and/or non-original colors, etc to be considered and likely valued as “projects”.
     
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  3. Daytonafan

    Daytonafan F1 Rookie

    Oct 18, 2003
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    13607 at last year’s Hampton Court Concours. The car is a fairly regular site at many U.K. events.

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  4. gcalex

    gcalex Formula Junior
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    The bar for “show car” has been slowly moving-up for the entire time that I have followed the Daytona market (decades), So I don’t think that this “devaluation” is anything new.

    Note, however, the quotes around the word “devaluation” above. I think the trend (ignoring the ups-and-downs of the market) is that higher-and-higher levels of restoration pushes up the value of the new standard of “show car”, and this actually tends to lift the value of even “project” cars. So I don’t think anyone is losing money (unless they buy on a peak, and sell on a trough). In fact, I think the reason that one seems to see more restoration is probably just because this trend has finally lifted Daytonas into the realm where folks feel like they can do “cost no object” restorations, and not lose a lot of money if they later sell.

    In my mind, “drivers” will/have always been “projects” to folks looking for “show cars”, so the question is whether Daytonas have gotten so expensive that folks that want “drivers” are now such a minority that almost every car is going to be made into a “show car”.

    Personally, I don’t think Daytonas are in the only-show strata yet; certainly, the valuations are not there yet...
     
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  5. bertdeboer340

    bertdeboer340 Formula 3

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  6. dgunn365

    dgunn365 Karting

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    I am incline to agree. While I have not followed Daytona values closely I believe that the market does get pulled up by the better restorations.
    The car we have bought as a project has many "needs" and the price we paid was no 'bargin'. Fortunately for us we are charged just $0.03/hr. for the work. And, perhaps more important, we bought a car we really like and are looking forward to spending wheel time with. In the end we include future value as only a small part of our thinking as we go along. The real driver is doing it as it was done. while that does have a big influence on the end value it is far more the satisfaction factor we following.
     
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  8. Wheels1

    Wheels1 F1 Rookie
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  9. TTR

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    Well, with all due respect, but I believe part of your "thinking" is based on perceptions more commonly held in U.S. than, let's say in Europe or UK.
    - I believe Europeans in general drive/use their "vintage" cars more, even outside of attending events or shows and therefor, regardless of restoration level (i.e "show" quality or not), view all or most car as "drivers".
    - Rarity or higher values aren't necessarily rendering cars to "show only" status. Just look at many GTOs, SWBs or any number of other 7- or 8-figure cars, regularly driven at (although often private affair) events. And again, probably more common in Europe than U.S.

    - Also, for aforementioned reasons, I believe many or most European vintage car owners are less concerned or worried about the financial aspects of their passion than Americans.
    For example, while myself and majority of my lifelong European vintage car enthusiast friends aren't wealthy or even that well off, we all have cars we've owned for decades, poured gobs of time and money into, but almost never talk or think of their "value" for anything other than what pleasures we derive by driving them as much as possible (= priceless).
    Some of us, including me, have purchased vintage cars at prices most would think idiotically high, but in just about every case they were exceptional and/or rare specimens of something each of us had lusted after for year or decades.
    Another example, my best friend (a European family man, father of 3, working as a service tech for local cable TV/internet provider), recently bought something he's been wanting nearly 40 years and last time he had one available for him was over 30 years ago for a fraction of the money he now paid for this, which like the previous one, is a complete project that will cost him multiple times more than he could ever hope to recover when it's finished. Now that's what I consider true enthusiasm.
    I myself have couple of cars I've owned over 3 decades and others (= "market" if you will) might consider them being worth somewhere in mid-to-high 5-figure range, but I really can't think of any cars valued up to low 7-figures I'd rather have or trade them for, so I just keep racking up miles/smiles with these...
     
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  10. gcalex

    gcalex Formula Junior
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    Hi Timo,

    My "show only" was about restoration/condition quality of the cars, not about whether they are driven or not.

    GTOs are an odd lot, but SWBs are a good example of what I am talking about. Regardless of whether they are driven, rough SWBs are pretty rare these days. Rough Daytonas, by comparison, are pretty common.

    Note that I am sure there are rough SWBs out there, but one only has to look at the auction listings to see that SWBs are on average restored to a higher degree that something like a Daytona.

    Similarly, I think it is fair to assume that a rough SWB (perhaps sold out of an estate or something) would get restored to a high standard by its next owner. By comparison, I still think that a rough Daytona stands a much higher chance of just being cleaned-up a bit and used as is.

    Finally, while I know that there are folks that are unconcerned about being underwater on a car, I also suspect that there are many folks that are concerned about such things. As a consequence, as the value of a car goes up, the pool of people willing to go all-out on a restoration starts to include more and more of the folks in the latter category. Net-net one sees more big restorations.

    Going back to your original comment that any Daytona that was not restored to a high/perfect standard would might soon be regarded as a "project", I still think that we are not at that point yet. My sense that there are plenty of imperfect cars, and plenty of folks (even in Europe :)) that would be willing to leave them that way and regard them as "drivers"...

    Cheers,
    Alex
     
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  11. colombo2cam

    colombo2cam Formula Junior

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    Just to be clear - you are suggesting that a good, never hurt, mechanically sorted car that has been repainted,(possibly in a factory correct but not original color) had the seats and/or carpets replaced is going to have value as a project car in the eyes of Ferrari enthusiasts?

    If this is the way we are looking at our cars we have missed the boat. I would much rather have a great original never apart number matching, don't care about paint color being original, fully sorted car than a fully restored "fully disassembled than reassembled" "new car".
     
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  13. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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  14. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    was the first USA Spyder I believe? Great picture Marcel, thanks for all these Daitona pictures you are sharing here!
     
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  15. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Correct.
    First owner was Mr. Hopkins.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  16. ms tifosi

    ms tifosi Rookie

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    Miss that car still today. We purchased it from Mr Fong and kept it in our collection until the late 2000's. When we sold it the car still had the lead stamp on a string around the steering column where it cleared customs. First event we showed that car was FCA National at Palm Beach Gardens in '86 I believe and were judged next to Mr. Marriott's and Ralph Lauren's Daytona Spiders. Thanks for the pic Marcel always great to reflect!
     
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  17. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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  18. GBTR6

    GBTR6 Formula Junior

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  19. ms tifosi

    ms tifosi Rookie

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    Believe that was an alloy bodied car that was actually owned by a gentlemen locally in GA for awhile and we procured the sister car #22 and restored it as well before we ended up owning both for short period of time then selling the #21 car. Never forget the sound of that car on the banking at Daytona in the 24 minutes of Daytona pre race parade in 94 or 95. The echo of that V12 at 7400 rpm off the wall was mechanical heaven! Thanks again Marcel...
     
  20. dgunn365

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    Andreas72, did you have the conversion done? We are looking for any details on how the headlight 'carrier' is fastened in. It looks like a triangular piece of steel holds the bottom but we have not seen how the top is fastened. If you have any info or photos it would help. Thank you
     
  21. markus77

    markus77 Karting

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  22. pantera gr4

    pantera gr4 Rookie

    Mar 18, 2006
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    Hello everyone. Dear Marcel. I take again the words of Amenasce about 13901 ... it was indeed on sale in Belgium at the beginning of the year at GIPI ?? I don't really understand about this car ?? thank you !
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  23. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    An object can be physically for sale in one country while it is owned by somebody from another country.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  24. pantera gr4

    pantera gr4 Rookie

    Mar 18, 2006
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    Yes sure ..thank you for your information .Attached is a bad photo of 13901 racing in 2008 with the Scemama family.best regards.
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  25. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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  26. TTR

    TTR F1 Rookie
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    Little difficult to see (on my screen) the last digit on the Berlinetta, but these two seem to feature consecutive registration (plate) numbers.
     
  27. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Both are Swiss dealer license plates BE 512-U and BE 511-U.

    Marcel Massini
     
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