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Official Daytona Pics

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Iceman.1, Sep 17, 2004.

  1. TheMayor

    TheMayor Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Vegas baby
  2. TheMayor

    TheMayor Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Vegas baby
    You can see where the tail of the 355 came from.
     
  3. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

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    I could be wrong but this looks like factory spider #14389...my "if i win the lottery this is the car I want" car. Giallo Dino over Arancia leather. Hubba hubba! But I digress....according to the ad Fantasy Junction ran for it years ago, the car was owned and modified by Lou Adler, a record producer who installed a custom speaker set-up in the interior, hence the odd looking "extra parts".

    http://fantasyjunction.com/cars/446-Ferrari-365 GTB/4 `Daytona` Spyder-4.4 Litre DOHC V12

    Great video, by the way!
     
  4. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    No Arancia leather.
    Beige VM 3104 it is.
    Adler was the second owner.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  5. readplays

    readplays Formula 3

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    I was looking at that faded leather, factoring in the california sun and thinking that, still, there's no way that could have started as Arancia (a pretty shade that I know well).
    Thanks, as always, Marcel for correcting the record.

    davemqv, I'm with you. A Daytona spider in Giallo Dino is mesmerizingly beautiful.
     
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  6. Daytonafan

    Daytonafan F1 Rookie
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    My Daytona is on the front cover of the latest edition of Enzo magazine along with some of the more modern V12 Ferraris. Well worth a read as IMO John Barker who wrote the article has very accurately described what the Daytona is like to drive.

    Picture credit Dean Smith (www.deanphoto.co.uk) for Enzo Magazine. low resolution version shared with permission.

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  7. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

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    I thought VM 3104 was Arancia, no?

    If not 3104, what is/was the code for Arancia?
     
  8. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

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    #1108 davemqv, Apr 30, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2018
    Yeah, this has been a point of confusion for me with this car for a while. I've even discussed it with Marcel before.

    Colour names can be a bit ambiguous, but as far as I know codes are more reliable, VM 3104 was always the code for Arancia, an orangey colour (obviously) with a sort of warm brown undertone. So as far as I can discern, if this car was listed as having VM 3104 leather from the factory, one of the following has to be the explanation regarding 14389...

    1) It is VM 3104, and VM 3104 is Arancia, and it has faded badly. I agree this seemed most unlikely as it is so even, but there might be evidence to support it. I have seen faded Arancia before and it's true that it looks much oranger than this, but those other cars were all coupes. The Southern California sun is brutal, and if the car was parked outside with it's top down a lot, which it appears to have been (look at the dash fading), that could certainly change the leather colour as well. Look at the pics attached from the sales ad years ago at Fantasy Junction. The originally black mouse hair dash appears almost beige. Also, way under the dash the leather does appear to look a bit orange or orange/caramel coloured. Further, this car appeared on film in period, in Altman's 1974 film "The Long Goodbye". Although it only appears in night shots, there are a couple of close ups showing the headrests, and they don't look tan or beige. They look more like a caramel colour, which would be more consistent with Arancia in night lighting.

    2) Another possibility is that the car was re-trimmed early on and they changed the colour. The car obviously had extensive interior modifications, and if Adler was the second owner (I don't know what year he bought the car) he may have switched from Arancia to beige leather. Certainly many people change their interior colour today, even on modern cars, and if interior work was already being carried out it doesn't seem like a stretch. Notice that beyond the speaker mods, the car also has a wood dash surround on the gauges, which I don't think is factory spec but happy to be corrected. The aging of the wood also seems to indicate it was done a long time ago, so if all of this was done in the 70's it would be hard to judge originality now based on aging, especially with all the sun damage.

    3) Another possibility is that VM 3104 is not Arancia, but every source I can find says it is. Even Marcel once told me that VM 3104 has always been Arancia, so I'm very confused if that's the case.

    4) Clerical error on the build sheet. I suppose the factory could have put beige leather in the car and typed in the code for Arancia? I doubt that but it's possible.

    5) Connolly used the same code for two different colour names. This also seems unlikely but who knows? I wasn't born until 1974 so I can't give first hand testimony. I wish I could go back in time to see the car in period...and buy it!

    These all seem like a stretch but as Sherlock Holmes always said - "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however unlikely, must be the truth." That being the case I'm voting for either option 1 (fading) or 2 (a very early retrim). It's certainly something I'd like to figure out.
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  9. Colombo1

    Colombo1 Rookie

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  10. Colombo1

    Colombo1 Rookie

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    Light Tobacco was the original color, as is seen in the 1972 movie photo. The car was re-trimmed later by Adler. I found cuttings of the factory leather that were left inside the wheel wells, one on each side, and had Henk at HVL match the color.
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    Marcel, when you did the report for me back in 2009 you indicated that Adler was the first and only owner of 14389 and that Faik never took delivery. Is there new information since then?
     
  11. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    14389:
    Please note that the factory build sheets do NOT list the colors (neither exterior nor interior color). Build sheets (a.k.a. Foglio di Montaggio or Assembly Data Sheets) list the mechanical details but not the finish details.
    There are other internal factory documents that do mention exterior and interior colors.
    The internal factory lists for 14389 and its "finizione interna" (internal finish) clearly say the words "Beige 3104" and NOT the words "Arancia" or "Orange".
    So, it is Beige.

    Mr. Falk (not to be confused with Baldhard G. Falk, first owner of #14813) returned 14389 after a few days to Hollywood Sports Cars and Lou Adler technically became the second owner.
    Adler purchased 14389 17 December 1971.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  12. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

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    Thanks Marcel but I don't understand. If 3104 is the code for Arancia, as we've discussed previously, how can it also be beige?
     
  13. Colombo1

    Colombo1 Rookie

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    Thanks, Marcel. Did you find any new documentation confirming ownership?
     
  14. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Factory entry.
    1st column: Serial number.
    2nd column: Name of dealer and name of first owner.
    3rd column: Exterior color name and code.
    4th column: Interior color name and code.
    Last column: Type of instruments and country (MG = Miglia = Miles and USA).

    Marcel Massini

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  15. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

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    Marcel,
    I 100% believe you and you're at a level of expert that I'll never reach. However, you've personally told me that "VM 3104 has always been Arancia (Orange), nothing else", so I'm just confused. Was the code used for something other than Arancia as well, or is "Beige" on the factory entry possibly a typo? Not questioning your knowledge. I'm just trying to learn here.
     
  16. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

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    Beautiful, thanks for the pic!
     
  17. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Some people say "Arancia" and others use the word "Beige".
    Also, the color has varied slightly over the past 60 years.
    Don't go by the name, go by code only.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  18. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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  19. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

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  20. Wheels1

    Wheels1 Formula 3

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    Interesting, it looks like 2 door light switch's in the door jam.

    Are there pleats in the rear bulk head leather panel behind the seats? Its hard to see in the photo.


    Back in the day things were changed by the dealer to meet the customer's preference.
    My car was ordered Dino Blue with light blue leather, but the buyer backed out, it was then changed to celeste blue with light blue leather, for the first buyer, but the final invoice to the 1st buyer say it has” Beige leather VM 3015” which is the code for blue, [ typo of the code I think] and then says “Interior as per current manufactures specification”, which I don’t think they would have put, if they had not changed it to Beige, for first delivery. I am not saying this is the same with your car its just a referance to how things got changed.
     
  21. Christian.Fr

    Christian.Fr F1 World Champ

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  22. TTR

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    2nd is for grounding (earth?) the "Key in ignition switch"(?) warning buzzer (as per USDOT regulation?) in US delivery examples.
     
  23. Wheels1

    Wheels1 Formula 3

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    Thanks Timo, that explains it.
     
  24. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

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  25. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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