'Official' F12M Rumours and Launch | Page 120 | FerrariChat

'Official' F12M Rumours and Launch

Discussion in 'F12/812' started by Traveller, Oct 4, 2016.

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  1. Red Sled

    Red Sled Formula Junior

    Agree. Also, often, the car is the window display to pull in the punter for a different transaction off the radar. Just make some light enquiries on the TDFs on mobile.de and a pattern emerges.

    A masked chassis number on a display car does make you wonder if it is really for sale.
     
  2. Camlet1

    Camlet1 Formula 3

    May 3, 2014
    2,079
    UK

    Quite. What's the opposite of a loss-leader? Bait and switch? Listen, I've skin in the game and find the obsession with values understandable.

    But I hate flippers especially on a car as wonderful as the TDF. These are works of art and in my opinion if you've been selected to be its original owner, to have your name in the service book,to spec it as you desire, you have a ******** duty of care to that special motor car.

    End of outburst, plus people have very short memories. My GTO went back 10% in its first year, 2011.
     
  3. Scraggy

    Scraggy Formula 3

    Apr 2, 2012
    2,064
    England
    Full Name:
    Scraggy
    Totally agree my 675 LT remains the finest car I ever drove and the engine is just a part, Mac is an engineering led company as opposed to engineering and marketing (and theme parks).
     
  4. 635CSI

    635CSI F1 Rookie

    Jun 26, 2013
    3,001
    London UK
    Full Name:
    Graham
    Engineering, Marketing, Theme Parks AND RACING.
    No disrespect to Mac but let's not forget "we" are not just about commercialisation and brand positioning. We race, we race them, they race us.
     
  5. Traveller

    Traveller F1 Veteran

    Apr 10, 2009
    6,323
    UK
    Full Name:
    Tim
    I do think McLaren has made incredible strides in a very short time and make remarkable cars, a British company to be rightfully proud of. However, you are absolutely correct in saying they are an engineering led company and that is ironically their problem, they are virtually exclusively engineering led, a reflection of the road cars founder.

    Ferrari have that something you simply cannot manufacture, soul.
     
  6. Maximus1973

    Maximus1973 Formula 3

    Oct 29, 2016
    1,358
    Nail. Head.
    Spot on!
     
  7. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2011
    7,257
    boom.

    /thread
     
  8. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 11, 2013
    10,860
    Spot on! Ferrari have captured our imaginations in a way that others can only wish- at least for now.
     
  9. 330i

    330i Formula Junior

    Aug 7, 2006
    316

    I wholeheartedly agree as long as we are talking about the last 4 years. And I think the technology gap will widen with the 720S. I have seen it and I look forward to all your opinions once you see it inside and outside. As for the aura, nothing beats Ferrari. And as a long time Ferrari family man, I look forward to the gents in Maranello regaining their tech edge. Let's not forget that the best car chassis control came out with the Speciale and I look forward to what is next!
     
  10. Clembo

    Clembo Formula Junior


    Correct. It is not just fast cars, the "story" matters. McLaren is great, I have huge respect, but it just doesn't move the soul in the same manner. Never will.
     
  11. Ferrari 360 CS

    Ferrari 360 CS F1 Veteran

    Dec 4, 2004
    6,707
    Cape Town,SA
    Full Name:
    Jacques
    I think there it tech and there is too much tech. I really hope Ferrari don't follow McLaren into some tech overload game of who can put more tech into a car.
     
  12. F12B88

    F12B88 Karting

    Aug 16, 2013
    67
    Different strokes for different folks. Its like the 911. The average person won't be able to tell the difference between a 911 and a GT2/GT3. To them its the same. I'm the type I love to stand out. All of the Mclarens have the same engine. Doesn't matter what internals. I'm basically paying for the same thing if I was a P1 owner and someone was looking at a 540/570S. You still by logic can get one of those. Change the parts yourself and save you $1.5-$2M. True, I hold Ferrari to a different standard. ;) The 812 has the same engine as the F12 but more displacement. If they put the same engine in and added more power I'd be fine. Its my love for Ferrari V12 engines that makes me ignore it. Not just another V8 with turbos (koenigsegg, Gumpert, Saleen S7, Venom GT etc) I still love the 675LT more than anything on the road in its price range right now. But with the way it looks. I believe the 675LT and P1 deserved at least a V10.
     
  13. 330i

    330i Formula Junior

    Aug 7, 2006
    316


    Agree! I advocate tech that will make the cars more enticing and entertaining to drive as well as - one day - not drive at all if one wants (did I just opened a can of worms with this last last statement?!?!). :)
     
  14. Red Sled

    Red Sled Formula Junior

    Amen.

    I did find it amusing at a recent Ferrari event when a client was complaining to his dealer principal that the he wanted to shift his 458SA before the launch of the 488 based SA-successor, but was finding Ferrari's "holding period" was too restrictive!
     
  15. Scion

    Scion Rookie

    Jul 31, 2016
    18
    RIP thread. You served us well :)
     
  16. isot

    isot Formula 3

    May 6, 2012
    1,130
    Lucca
    Full Name:
    Alberto
    see you soon with an other car 😀
     
  17. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,986
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    #2992 tazandjan, Mar 2, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  18. Traveller

    Traveller F1 Veteran

    Apr 10, 2009
    6,323
    UK
    Full Name:
    Tim
    I am posting this on both threads as we are still yet to get to the Geneva launch and so thought it appropriate until that is behind us.

    After my tdf handover I was lucky enough to get a private view of the 812 Superfast and thus had time to try and absorb it more fully.

    The car I saw was the special red, and approaching it from the front, my immediate reaction, aside from not being that keen on the colour, was that head on, the car had an intimidating presence. To my eye, where it starts to go wrong is in profile from the C pillar backwards where this unfortunate inlet starts just behind the rear quarterlight and given the sharp colour contrast, black to red, you cannot forget it is there and it just adds to an attractive but already busy side profile.

    The rear, well, I'm afraid I still find it difficult to come to terms with it, again, its just so busy. Just look at the clean simplicity of the F12b and the tdf and then the complex aero driven 812. I have no doubt the aero figures will be very impressive but I feel it has come at the cost of the design. Again, this hard contrast between the red and the black dismantles the cohesion of the design and thus it simply doesn't flow, and when you add to it all the crease lines, the entire effect is of a busy car. Having always felt that this car would be very colour sensitive, I am even more convinced of that now, and in greys or even black, much of the somewhat awkward detailing could be lost and that could transform things.

    The interior, contrary to many who have seen it, I found a disappointment, and whilst I know Brian L has been given flack for his somewhat harsh views on the Lusso interior versus the FF, I do tend to agree when it comes to the Superfast. and sense an unfortunate theme possibly developing here. I am assured that the quality of the leather is the same, but for whatever reason, it doesn't feel it or look it, you just get the impression the whole feel is a bit, shall we say 'thin'? The F12b had a very luxurious and elegant cabin, even in black, but perhaps exaggerated by the Sports seats, I don't find this to be its equal.

    Now, again, this could all change depending on your specification. Go for beige or cuoio leather and immediately it becomes more luxurious and GT'ish. Add lots of carbon, especially on the wheel, throw in some Daytona seats and some contrasting Alcantara, and you may totally transform the cabin. I was also not that keen on the red dashboard highlight, for my eye a little tacky, and just plain black will do nicely.

    So, my view, a total contrast with many on this Forum. Perhaps I am too lost in the history of elegance the brand offered, but I do have one caveat to myself which is I say all this knowing full well that the skill of designers is to see into the future and perhaps my eye has to catch up.

    Will I buy one, yes, as I am confident that with the right choices the car will be aesthetically transformed and at a UK price of £250k, is remarkable value for an 800PS V12 car. Do I want an early car-No thanks, I want to see what some schemes in the wild to validate my thoughts. Will it drive like a wonder, yes, and I am told the test drivers thing the new steering is also epic.

    We shall see.
     
  19. deltona

    deltona Formula 3

    Aug 7, 2009
    1,386
    UK
    Full Name:
    Justin
    Thanks Tim. Unfortunately that's not what I wanted to read as it largely coincides with my feelings and i haven't seen the car yet... I was really hoping that it would all come together in the flesh. I'm seeing the car this time next week at Geneva. I think they are showing a grey car, well i really hope they are as that would likely be my choice.

    Your comments about the leather bother me a lot. Does this mean we are all going to be forced to upgrade leather or go TM to get a decent finish? I sat in a launch Lusso a while back and wasn't convinced but I haven't sat in a dealer stock car yet. I hope you are wrong as it's one of the key elements of a Ferrari to me. At the end of the day you spend more time sitting in it than looking at it and the interior finish should be second to none. Shame on Ferrari if they have cheapened it.

    Any Lusso owners care to comment on their leather?
     
  20. DK308

    DK308 F1 Rookie

    Aug 13, 2013
    2,738
    Europe, way north.
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    AB
    From what has been posted on the board, width and diameter is the same as TdF. Offsets I don't know.
     
  21. TSOYBELIS

    TSOYBELIS F1 World Champ

    Nov 30, 2005
    11,670
    Athens, Greece
    Full Name:
    SPYROS
    FRONT 275/35 ZR 20''
    REAR 315/35 ZR 20''
     
  22. TSOYBELIS

    TSOYBELIS F1 World Champ

    Nov 30, 2005
    11,670
    Athens, Greece
    Full Name:
    SPYROS
  23. DK308

    DK308 F1 Rookie

    Aug 13, 2013
    2,738
    Europe, way north.
    Full Name:
    AB
  24. haroonok

    haroonok Formula 3

    Sep 5, 2007
    1,152
    england
    Full Name:
    haroon
    I remember sitting in the Lusso at Geneva last year and thinking the interior quite cheap feeling but sat in my dealers demo yesterday and all was well so keep the faith ....😎
     
  25. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,986
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    AB- Thanks for the wheel width info. Will dig up the offsets eventually for the Lusso and the 812.
     

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