It's always good to hear the good and the bad of any new car. Especially someone like yourself Traveller whom knows and value the heritage of the Ferrari brand. Even more so coming badk from an epic handover from your TDF... I keep going back to the public reaction of the F12b. A lot of long time customers thought it was also a complicated design from PF. Everyone complained about it's rear and the 'tacky' F1 foglight. Few years down the road and everyone is calling it one of PF's best designs. I strongly feel it's design will grow on us. Especially with more recent car launches have designs filled with active aero. It's a sign of the times I guess. I might also go with TM or aftermarket for the interior, like I did on my F12b.
History repeats itself again and again.......most people are quick to criticise and even quicker to forget their criticisms as the design settles into the new norm.
This. Couldn't have said it better myself. The interior on this new generation of cars is not on par IMO. Regardless of their marketing ploys; the leather on the Lusso dash etc. feels more vinyl-like to my inital touch than on the FF. The "aluminium" looks essientially like plastic and does not improve the overall impression now they've increased the surface area of the panels throughout the cabin. Difference between being an unbiased fanboi and a respective enthusiast of the brand.
I think this problem is also made more obvious by the fact the interiors are becoming very "busy", look at a 430 or a 360 and the simplicity of those interiors. I understand more and more these cars are being marketed as daily driver but truthfully how many are actually used as such?
Interesting comments and too each their own. I for one dont really "care" to this degree. The cars are for driving and driving "hard" and are not meant to be perfect and "wrinkle free". For that get a Lexus. My F12 has done 40k kms and has been used all over Europe, parked in underground car parks, left in the street and picked up quite a few scratches and grazes. All of this can be repaired if need be The 812 will be the same. Life is too short to worry about it and its "just a car" (OK flame me now )
The perceived feel of quality has next to nothing to do with the car's usage, intended or real world. It's about the emotions and impressions striking you as you enter the HMI area of a very high-end product believed to be the best in the business by many. The car may be all about its technical performance, but a big part of the packaging is the interior. You may choose not to let ut bother you, but I'm sure you wouldn't say no if the overall state of the cabin materials were ramped up. For comparison, check out the interior of the new Panamera. A car that on paper doesn't really compete with the Lusso, certainly not 812.
As far as leather is concerned, I am under the belief that Ferrari sources the finished hides from Polrona Frau.--different types and grades of skins. They car in terms of thickness and surface appearance (smooth vs. pebbling) One of the nice things about the leather found on the current cars is the durability and the consistency. Of course with TM program there are a lot of options for personalization. So if you want your seats to look like your leather couch or antique arm chair or even like your wife's Hermes Kelly bag Ferrari will do it for you. That's pretty cool! I sat in the Lusso and found it to be a very luxurious refined cabin. I am not a fan of huge Tesla iPad screens in a sports car. I don't like the new passenger screen in the Cali T or Lusso or other models. I also don't care for contrasting stitching or the color inserts or the stitched horses or the bright yellow or red seatbelts or silver dedication plaques or the Italian flag trunk badges etc. I feel there is so much design going on--interior and exterior--more personalization detail is over the top. Kinda like when I see picture of a metallic purple Lambo with purple leather and yellow accents, usually in London to be even more exact --Knightsbridge That's my preference. Acknowledging I am in the minority. Most buyers want as much eye candy as they can afford. It's remarkable that Ferrari is able to attend to our every whim. The build specs can get pretty complicated 60-120K in personalization is the norm.
Both sides of the argument are interesting. One the one hand, some of the best Ferraris of the Fiat-era have no interior to speak of e.g. F40, F50 and other driver focused variants of road cars. Just stripped out, racer style. On the other hand, with a well spec'd F12 which is not far south of Rolls Royce Phantom money, one should reasonably expect the best quality of materials and craftsmanship, especially for a brand that positions itself as a luxury goods company more than just a car manufacturer in the eyes of buyers & investors. The RACE valuation definitely reflects that.
Interesting as I will spec my 812 with as little "eye candy" as possible (trying for ZERO CF) and will spend the $'s on options that add a "sportiness" to the car.
I think the days of a car like the F40 sitting at the top as THE supercar for Ferrari, and indeed the industry, they are long gone. Its not just Ferrari- look at Porsche- they made the CGT, it even had some things that were not so necessary, and then the 918- amazing as it is- its not a purist machine. Neither is the LF nor the P1. So no more will you get a car that looks like its held together by chewing gum and is basically just you, a shifter, some truly manual brakes, basically a go kart with a heart stopping body. Those days are over. So now we do look to other things such as the quality of materials. Thats just the nature of things. I never really felt the quality of materials on the Ferraris was to the level of the better Bentleys or Rolls, and that also goes for the paint. BUT, none of those other cars could ever inspire or excite me. I appreciate them, but that's about it. So it seems to me its a question of relative expectations. And I think many of us are sitting here thinking of the changes Ferrari has gone through (no more LDM, no more private company owned directly by FIAT, no more PF, and also probably no more other important players who have moved on but I can't remember right now) and we naturally wonder- have they gone too far? Its a natural thing to wonder. I suppose its a question of degrees where each of us will make a decision. The final arbiter will be sales. I suspect the many valid criticisms made here won't deter another sales success. Its a striking 800HP V12 NA beast from Ferrari with cutting edge technology and for those who are passionate and fortunate enough, you can probably cure materials issues with Tailor Made or Atelier. Probably just how they designed it....
Let me add to your point Caeruleus. My fullyloaded Range Rover Autobiography has a much lesser infotainment system than a newly launched 10k car. I won't even mention connectivity or wifi..... it simply is the nature of the game. The 812 will be outclassed by dozens of cars on various points. However none of that matters if the car doesn't stir the soul. A truly great car is never the sum of all parts.
Let's not confuse pure with rudimentary and unsophisticated. There is nothing purer in an F40 compared to a LF; it's just a primitive machine against a state of the art one. Nowadays even F1 cars are computers on wheels because that makes them quicker and better.
Thanks for the great discussion guys! Yes, the Range Rover system is not the best but the vehicle exudes charm and is classy- a tough thing for a truck to pull off. My wife has one. It's not quite my cup of petrol. For daily driving I like a BMW- they have the best mix for me. I think their electronics package is the best out there and the new one really handles! I actually have to clarify a little bit REALZEUS, I think you have to judge cars in their respective eras. I think you are right about cars and computers. Maybe I picked the wrong wording... A Ferrari 250 today would be rudimentary and even unsophisticated by today's standards. But back then... those cars can put on speed enough to surprise even a driver of modern super cars. Just mind the 50+ year old braking technology! Coming back to the F40, I don't think it was really rudimentary or unsophisticated for the time. I think the engine was pretty well developed, and its an improved motor they intended for racing- and though they didn't intend for the F40 to race, it did and did it with some success. Maybe "pure" isn't the right word, but its the word I chose. I mean a driving experience when its just you and the car. As one friend once said to me- its about how good a pilot you are. I love driving the 458, and I could say its "pure fun" but I need to add the fun in there. Times just move on I guess. But the LF, 918, even P1, "pure" is just not a word I would ascribe to them. Amazing, incredible, hugely desirable, beautiful (especially the LF). Sure. My point is just that this current generation of supercars doesn't come across as "just you and the car" - maybe I should have said just you and a petrol motor and a stick shift. To me that's "pure". I think newer cars are more than that, because they have to be. I don't think they could make a car like the F40 today if they wanted to. Its just a different era.
Great photo F12B88 For me the proportions don't work - I liked all of the F12 from the moment I first saw it - it "worked" (the T-back notwithstanding. I'm struggling to feel the visual arousal (!) for the 812. I am sure the driving will be sublime but the aesthetics just are not there for me.
Yes I agree. The F12 TDF was strange to me next to a standard F12 but it looks like a masterpiece compared to this.....
Still not doing it for me in red. Take away the Ferrari badges and round tail lights and I wouldn't be sure that it was a Ferrari.....
Though with all of the camo. The F12 in my opinion is still the better looking. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I need to see it in person and give it time. I agree with the thoughts that when they show a new style many will react negatively because its a change of something we love.
