Official FerrariChat.com Poll: No Politics & Religion posts?

I know - I wasn't trying to question what you said. It just caught my attention so I did a quick snip. I should have snipped at bit less and explained a bit more.

 

I'm fine with P&R posts as long as they all agree with my opinion.


Rob...does this mean no more Tootsie Heinz Kerry postings????

 

Wayne,

Yes it has occured to me that moving off topic to a subscribed level might lessen the problems that have sprung up of late, but of the small group of regulars, who mostly play by the rules (maybe two or three dozen of us), there are many who don't subscribe and these people would be lost. For instance Nibblesworth, whose views I don't always agree with, but respect for the most part isn't a subscribing member.

It's a two edged sword and I understand that first and foremost this is a Ferrari site and the majority of a moderators time must be spent on Ferrari related issues. I also understand the need to project a friendly professional atmosphere for sponsors.

I guess it comes down to increased moderation and STERN consequences for those who don't play by the rules.

I think anyone who calls other people some vulgar profanity should be banned in some form. Telling someone to F*off or calling them an ******* should get the banned. I use some profane language from time to time to show my feelings on a particular subject but I have never called anyone a deragatory name. Physical threats or demeaning someone should be dealt with in a swift manner.

When the language becomes vulgar or threats are made then it's time to ban folks, either temporarily, or permanent.

I frequently will say things like "that's total bullsh*t or that's horse****, or hell....................." but I have never called someone personally by a vulgar term.

I do agree that we need to wait until the election is over. As a regular on this forum who checks in every day and responds to some threads with 30 minute posts, I have noticed increased levels of tension leading up to the election.

Let's vote on it now, but let's hold off until after Thankgiving to make changes if they are deemed to be needed.

Just my 02 worth.

Jon

 

So....how much $$$ you got?

 

I personally feel that at least nine tenths of the problem in the Politics and Religion forum comes from the Moderators. I've been feeling this way for about the past month when I've been paying more attention to the titles under users names. More often than not the people in involved in the flame wars and conflicts are the more active posters and readers on this website. From what I can tell from just observation every moderator on this forum is one of the more active poster and are distinguished members.

I've just come from looking at the topic about Art in OT. There is absolutely no reason why anyone should of made the identity of 2000YELLOW360 known. Indeed to my mind the privacy section of the Terms of Use means that your IP address will NOT be posted publicly. To my mind proper action upon knowing that Yellow is Art is to ban Yellow and inform Art that he should post under his username and to lock, or remove, the thread. Or simply leave Art alone and let him post under a new name. Instead the moderators feed the flames and made his current identity known and opened up the floodgates for a bashing/flame thread. Which is EXACTLY what that thread has become.

From what I can tell some of the moderators take an active part in the flame-wars and insults being thrown around in P&R and are indeed are making it look like a LEGITAMENT and SANCTIONED area to behave in that manor. Frankly they should be cracking down on their own behavior to set a better example, and actively cracking down on all the pictures and remarks being thrown around. Instead they have let it fester and become an area where it is acceptable.

If you want to have a P&R section you need to have it properly moderated, and it seems to me that you will have one whether you like it or not because people will talk about it.

 

To rebuke Mr. G, I don't think its doing certain people on F-chat any good. If it was the P&R section, Off Topic, or Other Italian, they were bound to not co-exist. Disband the P&R section because old blood can't mix with old blood and new blood? Rubbish.

From a business perspective, its booming. Can't please all the people... the poll speaks for itself but the decision is yours. Your not placating to anyone by removing it and you'll slight your loyal customers that remain.

Let the moderators shut down threads that start getting out of hand. Thats what they are there for aren't they?

Sunny

 

Rob328gts.......

If you remember I e-mailed you privately about this a while back.......after the TELSON troll episodes from last year. Things were fine after that bug got squashed........and as the PR forum is like a "containment device" of sorts........it's actually worked better than I thought it would.

Keep it the way it is. I predict it will slow down big time a month after the election and die it's own death to some extent. I hadn't noticed this "dissention" that's being spoken about spreading elsewhere on the board to tell you the truth.

IIRC back then I suggested that you ban all political talk from both sides as there were plently of BB's already online for that kind of stuff. And since it is an election year........you were right, it'd be a "PITA" to moderate the political trolls that are predominant in cyberspace......amongst other things.

If you keep all the garbage in one landfill......it's easier to deal with and the whole place doesn't start to stink.

 

I'm not adding anything new, but I agree with those who said:

-Things will settle down around the beginning of the year, after the election hubub

-It is a sanitary measure to trap the odor of bullsh*t from wafting into the rest of the forum

-I think you should make the P&R subscriber-only.

It's not going to bankrupt anyone who really wants to subscribe. If you can't afford a silver membership, but you spend tons of time on FChat, it might be time to reevaluate your priorities. Instead of staying up late posting on FerrariCHat, maybe you should go to bed early. You could maybe do a paper route in the morning before the bell rings and it's time to go to homeroom.

 

There are other vehicle manufacturers and other forums that I am attached to but this is the only one that I ever go into the "off topic" part in. Do other FChat users also engage in discussion on politics and religion on other boards?

 

Rob,

Although I myself am drawn to this section I feel that it serves no purpose or adds value to Fchat. It's sort of fun to watch (like a train wreak) but later makes you feel sad.

Kill it!

Bob

 

Why is it that no one "gets" this? I just had a related discussion with NNO over PM's that related to this same kind of thing. If your goal (as mine is) is to make everyone AT LEAST understand your logic, and hopefully be persuaded by it, then don't you think you'll attract more flies with honey than with vinegar? I think people start deriding the opinions of others (and the other people) when they realize they are not capable of persuading them.

On an unrelated note, I REALLY want to be just like Jim G (Napolis) when I grow up.

 

I seem to recall this quote from Rob at the beginning of this thread, "The negatives have been wars from the P&R section have spread elsewhere in the community." What are you referring to????

 

As one of the primary moderators of that area, I would love to know what you are talking about in more detail. Please inform me.

You guys forget we are hands off as much as possible, as otherwise...

 

I agree with NNO -
It's just going to make it's way onto Other Off Topic. Deleting every political thread in Other Off Topic would become a moderating nightmare.
Much better the way it is now - pretty effectively cordoned off from the rest of the site.
And, if you wade through all the crap, there's actually some decent info there, particularly links to videos or articles that I wouldn't otherwise know existed.

 

1st. Agree that Mods should not reveal information about the identity of a poster, even if they guy is a troll, and more particularly if it is someone with whom you disagree politically. PM the offender if you have an issue with him, or delete the thread if you must, but, id-ing a user is a no-no.

2nd. All mods for P&R should not be allowed to post in P&R. Want someone to stay really neutral about what goes on in there? Then no posting. Neutrality is very important to help to mediate any situation. Don't allow any posts in P&R from its moderators.

3rd. Any, ANY personal attack gets deleted, as soon as it is spotted. Any profane reference, any familial reference, and ANY OTHER PERSONAL ATTACK, goes, right away. Person or persons involved in personal attacks get warned and banned; 1 day 1st time, week second time, permanent 3rd time.

4th. Any action within P&R that could be construed as libelous gets deleted and rule 3 applies. Innuendo about other members can not be tolerated. Got something political to say? Say it. Got something you want to infer or imply about a fellow fchatter, save it, PM it, but don't post it in a public forum.

General rule about P&R. Don't be a baby... Behave like an adult. IF you're not prepared to back up what you have to say, from post one, don't say it. If you want to attack, go to a political forum outside fchat. We have a commonality here,we love all things vehicular, Ferrari in particular. Remember that and respect the others here who have that in common with you.

I had waded into P&R pretty heavily for a while, found it frustrating and discouraging, to say the least, and have wandered out for the most part. Occasionally I post if I see something that I consider way out of line, but mostly I stay out now. I read, but I don't write.

A little self control would help, but that's not gonna happen. So, set it up with moderators without obvious political motivation, post tighter rules, delete threads sooner, and see if the crowd doesn't get the point.

But, don't wipe it out. Many here obviously enjoy the give and take. Some just enjoy the bait and bully a bit too much.

 

i couldn't agree more, my answer is here: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35907

 

Acutally, I am a conservative. (Never would have guessed huh?) I was raised listening to Rush and Regan is my hero. I remember getting upset when Bush 1 lost.

Just because I believe in 90% of what my party stands for doesnt mean I believe in the other 10%...

 

Personally, I think it enlivens the forum. OT sections are essential to build a real feeling of community, and P & R has had some excellent, thought provoking ...even civil discussions !

From what I can see, the major problem is people taking things a little too personally. I can fully understand that, it's happened to me too. But when it degenerates into name calling, and even personal attacks, long standing grudges result, and that can spill over into other parts of the forum. Discussing politics shouldn't have to become so intensely personal, yet some people insist on bringing the character of others into question, and even call their mothers names.

Even worse, occasionally a vendor speaks his mind about a pet political topic and that happens to rub some people the wrong way. The vendor, of course, is perfectly entitled to do this as long as he doesn't make any personal attacks against forum members or otherwise contravenes the rules. If one doesn't agree with his comments, the correct way (IMHO) to deal with it would be to post a spirited response to it, maintain a mature argument, and then forget about it in other areas of the forum. Instead some posters cannot seem to contain their outrage, and even make public declarations that they won't give that vendor any more business, because of his brazenly stated political views, etc, etc. I think this is a very childish and disheartening attitude, and if a lot of people are going to think this way, better not to have a P & R section at all.

 

I wouldn't mind at all when the P&R section was gone... Really don't care about it... There are better places to discuss those subjects IMO...

 

If you decide to leave it there, it would be nice to have a feature for searching for new posts WITHOUT including the P&R forum. I always use the "new posts" feature and it's cluttered with P&R topics that I could care less for. Otherwise, this is the best forum I have seen yet! Keep up the good work!

Cheers
Andy