Official Turkish Grand Prix Race and Results Thread **** SPOILIER ****

A great race once again. I love this track.

I'm no fan of Webber, but where was he supposed to go in the MS incident? MS has done this kind of stupid mooves in the past when he was battling in the midfield. Shanghai with Klien comes to mind. He is so used to everybody else get out of his way, that he doesn't realize they won't have the same reaction when he is just in a midfield position.

Great drive by Kimi and Alonso. Keep it going boys!

 

Huh? If anything is retarded, its that assertion...

I'm a big MS fan, but he screwed up, NOT Webber. I would guess his brain was on idle back in the pack and he just never noticed Webber in his mirrors.

And Tiago had no prayer... Montoya cut right in front of him and braked hard... in a car that brakes way better than the car he just cut in front of...

JPM is an absolute idiot. All he had to do was drive home! He couldn't (and wouldn't) catch up for 1st... so, what was the point of that. He should have stayed on the inside, braked from there, taking the corner a little slower... its not like Tiago would have been able to (or even tried) to pass JPM back on the outside... the slash to the outside and brake was just a major brain lapse.

JPM is fast... but his multiple brain lapses in most every race make it highly unlikely that he'll ever be WC. Pathetic.

 

I think it's about time Ferrari cancelled Bridgestone's tire contract on the basis of failing to provide an adequate product........

 

yeah...last race I thought they had finally got it figured it out, so I thought this weekend would cement ferrari's return....silly me

 

Firstly and foremost... Hello all.....
I've been a fan of Ferrari since I can walk and specially of MS this last years. What happened in Turkey with MW was a mistake on the part of Webber, MS was coming into the pits in 1 or 2 laps, and considering that MW was a lap behind would have given him a chance to go by.... no reason to try and be world champion in 1 turn......

 

Imperial's twin brother just signed up ..... welcome !

Jon

 

I think you ought to take a look at the calendar, mate. It's not 2004 any more.

 

1. MS, not Weber, was at fault. I saw it that way, the announcers saw it that way, the F1 web site saw it that way...

2. MS spun out 7 times Friday...mostly on turn 3. No one else had that problem...

"It is what it is.."

 

Agree MS was at fault. Everyone makes mistakes the incident wouldn't have changed the outcome for either anyway.

 

No kidding. Being a fan is one thing, being oblivious to everything else and saying things that are completely untrue just because you're a fan (yet spouting off your opinions as "fact") is another.

Maybe some on this forum would like to have it where as soon as someone is out of the points (except MS or RB) they retire from the race? Or maybe a rule that in any passing situation, MS should get preference?

Webber is a racer. He was down due to a tire failure. If some think he should have deffered to MS, then better he would just have pulled in the garage. Why stay out if you're not still racing and pushing?

It was MS's fault. Webber was clearly faster. Webber made the pass. He was in front. He had the position and the inside line. MS turned into him. MS had somewhere to go, Webber did not. MS was responsible for the contact, partly by not yielding to the faster car and partly by not giving Webber space. Webber could not have avoided the accident, MS could have.

It was MS's fault. And not the first time he makes a bonehead move when he's seriously down on position.

I know (as do the other thinking members here) what the reaction would have been if MS and MW's roles were reversed.

 

Michael seems to have another viewpoint

"As regards the incident with Webber, I saw him closing on me and he moved to the right. As I began to brake, I could no longer see him and, when I was in mid-corner, I felt a bang at the back as he hit me with his nose. He was one lap down, so I don’t understand why he tried this move. After the collision, there was something wrong with the car, so I went into the pits where the mechanics changed the power steering incredibly quickly. I went back out on track so as not to have to be first out in qualifying in Monza. At least this worked out, as I made up three places.”

But of course you guys where in MS's car so you know what was happening.

Webber says
"When I came out of the pits, I was a lap behind Michael Schumacher but I was much quicker than him. I thought it was strange that he was moving around the braking area as all the drivers agree to try not to do this. Michael seemed quite keen to do it though so I didn.t show much respect in the end when I went round the corner. We then made contact. After that, I had another tyre incident which ended our race.”

Now think about it, MS is racing to get higher positions, because he could realistically do this since he wasn't a lap back. Webber should have backed off and not charged. He was a lap down, if he was that much faster he could have passed him on the straight, but think about it, did he have a realistic chance of doing well in this race like MS, no.

 

With the exception of Button's pass on Coulthard on the front straight nearly all the passing shown on Speed was done underbraking entering a turn.

The Ferrari's problem isn't straightline speed or lack of horsepower it's braking and cornering grip. This is where you have to make a pass in F1.

Webber (who I am no fan of) has been getting his clock cleaned by Heidfeld. There is no way he's going to sit behind MS when he has a faster car and get tagged as Michael's *&#$tch like his brother Ralph has been tagged.

I am sure we could all view the incident from a 100 different angles and come to different conclusions but the conclusion that it's 100% one driver's fault is a stupid comment.

Michael has had problems for years with giving racing room when stuck mid pack or being hounded by another car.

Jon

 

What the heck did JPM say about the Jordan hitting him after he cut him off in the braking area?

In the interview he seemed to be mumbling something about it jos verstappen doing this a couple years ago????

JPM sucks- when he did that I said he would try and blame Ferrari for the contact. He CAN NOT take responsiblity for his own half brained driving.

Kimi did not seem to happy about it not being a 1-2 finish- i think it will be funny if JPM costs Kimi the drivers championship.

I think Kimi has the best car & driver combo- his breakdown are what caused his second place standings.

 

Totally agree ... yet again MS has trouble using his mirrors, and blocking succesfully.

As Jon states Webber has balls and is NOT going to allow MS to intimidate him like all the other poofs have ... thus he had a completely valid attempt to pass and MS simply drove in to the side of his car. MS was fncked anyway driving his slow Iveco and showed yet again poor sportsmanship in not conceding that he had lost the corner.


Anyway off that topic ... my views of the race:
1. Great track and as I have said before if we have good fast corners on to a straight with a nice tight corner at the end ... guess what we WILL have passing. And we had heaps of it ... thus we do NOT need to get rid of the wings/downforce we need to STOP making cr@p tracks like Melbourne, etc.

2. Kimi, simply brilliant and I believe he has won now 2 races in a row with the same engine!!!, congrats McLaren and Mercedes for solving this issue.

3. JPM ... hmmm, where can I start. McLaren appear to have another DC on their hands. Very fast but oh my God what a balls up to make ... he possibly has cost the team the WDC!!!!. And yet he has been great lately with raw speed and very, very tidy driving. Remember DC and how he used to have these brain fart moves ...

4. Ferrari, well they naturally struggled.

5. Heidfeld ... I do hope you are all giving him heaps for bumping Massa off the track on the first corner!!!. Thus I have to admit that Nick has some balls but that was a pretty nasty bit of unfair driving in to that first corner. He just straight pushed Massa's car on to the grass!!!

6. Webber, was looking good and fast and was wronged by wandering MS. Interesting to hear theses 2 mates next conversation

7. Williams, what was with their tyre issues?

8. Jordan ... hmmm, piss poor driving by one of their drivers! Obviously unable to handle the slip stream tow and thus did not compensate, and thus has NOT had enough race experience.

[EDIT:]Many of you are blaming JPM for cutting off the Jordan and thus the Jordan was not able to stop in time. Well I personally think you are wrong. JPM passed the Jordan and as he was lapping he is perfectly entitled to take whatever line he likes. This is racing guys not driving to work and thus there is little concept of cutting off somebody. Also from my couch JPM still had a few yards of acceleration (or atleast flat out stuff) before braking. Heck maybe the Jordan didn't but the Jordan driver should have been thinking, hmmm I'm being lapped (for the 30+ time ...) better give him some room.

Now what would have happened sitting in the Jordan?

Well lets see his piece of cr@p Jordan is pushing hard against the enormous downforce they need to make them even look like cornering. Thus JPM's car suddenly is in front of this car ... and guess what? The Jordans suddenly free from pushing air (as the McLaren is cutting the air for him) ACCELERATES, massively. Thus again it was completely the Jordan's fault and this is 101 motor racing with wings, ie: slip streaming.

Everytime a car laps another car this happens and the wise ones use it to pull them along a little. The useless ones like this driver and Jos Verstapin can't handle the situation and crash into the car infront.[/EDIT]

9. Renault, well they are just not there with the speed of the McLarens and now McLaren's are reliable we have a great battle.

10. Fisi, useless as usual and good on Renault with the team orders. Fisi was doing his usual, 'yeah I'll get up to speed on the 70th lap ...' BS and this is Renaults first WDC chance, so do what ever it takes. Next year (if they win) well a different attitude is required, to be more sporting, but hopefully Fisi will just be driving the team truck by then

Overall interesting race and great track.
Pete

 

I think it was Montoya's fault. According to Ron Dennis, JPM was nursing a flat spot so he would be braking earlier than usual. JPM knew that and it was for him to play it safe and smart.

Webber/Schumi= Schumi's fault in my opinion.

Disappointing race for Ferrari. (Funny how Rubens let Button pass so easily, yes I know JB had a way better car but atleast try holding your postion for a while.)
Also I'm happy that Kimi won.

PS: GP2 race was good!!

 

Doesn't really make any difference IMO.

?, Surely JPM got the 'flat spot' from his spin ... which was the result of this contact??

Me too

Pete

 

No, JPM had the flat spot before the incident with the Jordan.

 

Doesn't that apply to MS/MW too?, you were lapped, get out of the way.... but that's what MS has to go through this year, and as a matter of fact, every year, except when Mika Hakkinen was racing.....

 

Man, I almost fell asleep during the race, literally. Came back from the beach and had to fight with cherry cokes in hand to stay awake to see the points standings. 0 lead changes... Sigh, yawn, might as well have gotten some shut eye...

At least JPM's late race foray added a little spark. McLaren has been the only other team I've liked since I started following F1, as such, I'm defecting to them for the rest of the season, our only shot to beat the damn Renaults and flaccid Flavio.

 

And Monteiro is an asshat. Not only for him racing JPM, but mostly because he's just damn annoying. He's always got a stupid smirk on his face. wtf, he just strikes me as that ******bag who's all smiles Monday morning in the office.

And I see the points on racing lines, reduced downforce, etc. and they're all valid. But at the end of the day, you're being lapped at the end of the race by far and away the fastest car in the field (McLaren). Let off early, let him go by, and don't make an ass of yourself. He's still got a race, you're a backmarker who's gone after this season.

MW/MS is not so clear cut. I could see it go either way, if MW was on the same lap as Schumi, then I would side with him without a doubt.

 

Montoya likes to brake check. Maybe he didn't brake check Monteiro in that moment, but I think JPM still lacks experience and self-control.
I have never seen a modern-day F1 pass in which the passer cuts so sharply across the passee's nose. You couldn't have separated them with Kate Moss. (Error #1)
Then JPM immediately begins braking. Way earlier/harder than he had to for that corner.(Error #2)

 

Pete,

Last time I checked, F1 cars don't accelerate when their front tires are smoking. JPM stole the air from the Jordan's front wing and he needs to take responsibility for what happened. It was a bonehead move.

I agree the race was interesting (what race were the complainers watching?)

Andy

 

Agreed on both points.

A boneheaded and unnecessary move by JPM. He is entertaining to watch. Like a train wreck.

A great race on a great track building up to a cliff hanger of a Championship finale.

 

ROTFLOL!!!

 

Okay I'll accept that I need to watch the incident again.

As they were on a straight line I do not understand what the significance of the comment: 'JPM stole the air from the Jordan's front wing' ... other than the car would have accelerated.

Remember it takes something like half the hp of a F1 car just to push the wings resistence ... thus JPM took that away (just as any passing car does) and thus the Jordan would have massively accelerated. Just imagine your road car suddenly developing twice it's hp!!!

Also remember the Jordan driver would have watched JPM come up in his mirrors, move out and pass him ... no surprises. A real racing driver would have expected JPM to have taken the racing line for the next corner, etc.

Yeah ???


The bone head move that JPM did in that race was to go off 2 laps from the end and give 2nd to FA ... poor effort.

Pete
ps: Mansell used to say that as soon as he could not see the car he was passing via peripheral vision ... he'd chop it ... I guess in India they atleast signal first . That man would struggle in Sydney