Oh Boy - Gummed up brake fluid clogging stuff everywhere... (360) | Page 3 | FerrariChat

Oh Boy - Gummed up brake fluid clogging stuff everywhere... (360)

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Wayne 962, Nov 26, 2021.

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  1. raemin

    raemin Formula 3

    Jan 16, 2007
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    R. Emin
    #51 raemin, Sep 14, 2022
    As far as the pump is concerned be careful with this cheap Chinese pump: if that's the one with a mabushi 540 motor inside, the mechanism does wear (and rust!), which leaves tons of particles in the fluid.

    This is not an issue for its intended use (extracting used oil) , but i would not use it to send fluid in anything delicate unless it's been thourougly cleaned and inspected.
     
  2. Wayne 962

    Wayne 962 Formula Junior
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    #52 Wayne 962, Sep 14, 2022
    Good to know. I'm not really planning on using for anything important past this experiment. Hopefully the brand new Audi block will be a direct replacement!
     
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  3. Wayne 962

    Wayne 962 Formula Junior
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    #53 Wayne 962, Sep 15, 2022
    Getting closer. While waiting for the AL ABS block to arrive, I have the following to do:

    - Flush the existing lines in the car (four of them to each corner) - using the pump I just bought.
    - Reinstall the calipers
    - Install the new rubber brake hoses
    - Install rebuilt / cleaned master cylinder and new reservoir

    Basically, if one wanted to do every possible thing related to the brakes (except discs at this moment), then this would be it. Rapidly approaching 100+ hours already.

    -Wayne
     
  4. Wayne 962

    Wayne 962 Formula Junior
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    #54 Wayne 962, Sep 27, 2022
    Okay, so I got the new block. It's almost identical to the Ferrari one, except for one of the ports, which is smaller (the bore hold is the same size - not sure why Ferrari used the larger fitting). I swapped the block / computer, installed the fitting and got everything back together and bled the heck out of the thing. Trouble is, my Foxwell scanner won't find my ABS unit. It says "searching" and I hear the unit click and flash "ASR" on the dash, but then the Foxwell unit says that it cannot find the module! Very frustrating. I'll have to find someone with a Leonardo or something similar, or perhaps there's an older version of the Foxwell software that might work better (or a newer update too). Frustrating. So close. Anyways, here are a bunch of photos for everyone for the future.


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  5. Wayne 962

    Wayne 962 Formula Junior
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    #55 Wayne 962, Sep 27, 2022

    Attached Files:

  6. rwregen

    rwregen Rookie

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    #56 rwregen, Mar 2, 2023

    What is the best way to clean out the cross over tubes? Thanks!
     
  7. Wayne 962

    Wayne 962 Formula Junior
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    #57 Wayne 962, Mar 2, 2023
    I used two methods. I got some pipe cleaner that is sold in a roll - and then used it to clean out the smaller brake pipes. On the larger ones, I got a fluid pump from Harbor Freight and ran brake fluid through each line for several minutes in a complete loop. There's not much that you can do more than that...

    Hope this helps,

    Wayne
     
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  8. ysrjunkie

    ysrjunkie Rookie

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    #58 ysrjunkie, Aug 15, 2023
  9. Wayne 962

    Wayne 962 Formula Junior
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    #59 Wayne 962, Aug 15, 2023
    I'm happy to report that the Audi ABS block is an almost near-perfect replacement for the Ferrari one. There was one port that had a slightly different sized port, and I needed to squeeze an adapter in there. Weighing all of the options, I found it better to go with a brand new block that was technically from the same BOSCH system, rather than *try* to clean out the old one, and hope that it would work when needed someday. As I mentioned previously, new ones from Ferrari are no longer available!

    Hope this helps,

    Wayne
     
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  10. ysrjunkie

    ysrjunkie Rookie

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    #60 ysrjunkie, Aug 16, 2023
    That's great to hear. I did more research and it looks like the 0 265 220 486 for the Ford Transit overseas is just like the Audi one, but with the correct size fittings. I am waiting to see if my customer will bite and I will keep you posted. Great write up. I am sure you have helped many.
     
  11. windsock

    windsock Formula 3
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    #61 windsock, Aug 16, 2023

    This is a problem with Shell UB fluid and moisture and has been for over 20 years.
     
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  12. Oliver var

    Oliver var Rookie

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    #62 Oliver var, Aug 17, 2023
    They do appear to be exactly the same for the BOSCH 5.3 ABS system. I know that you can take the computer assembly off and swap it on other cars, so I'm assuming it would work in this case.
     
  13. ysrjunkie

    ysrjunkie Rookie

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    #63 ysrjunkie, Aug 21, 2023
    I just ordered the Ford Transit one. I will let you know how it works.
     
  14. Wayne 962

    Wayne 962 Formula Junior
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    #64 Wayne 962, Aug 28, 2023
    I just checked the one that I ordered on eBay, here's the info (I bought two, one used one and one new one, once I confirmed the part would fit):

    1999-05 Audi A6 VW Passat ABS Antilock Brake Pump Control 3B0614111 OEM 344 5P4

    Bosch ABS ASR control unit hydraulic unit braking system Audi A6 Skoda VW Passat

    Vergleichsnummer 0 265 220 639, 0265220639
    OE/OEM Referenznummer(n) 8E0614111AQ, 8E0 614 111 AQ, 8E0 614 111AQ
    Herstellernummer 0 265 220 639

    Hope this helps,

    Wayne
     
  15. belfry

    belfry Formula Junior

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    #65 belfry, Sep 4, 2023
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2023
    I had this crystallisation happen on my 456, but only on one caliper. My car had been in storage for 2-3 years and I am sure that the lack of use caused this issue.

    @Wayne 962 Had you car been used regularly before you bought it?
     
  16. Wayne 962

    Wayne 962 Formula Junior
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    #66 Wayne 962, Sep 4, 2023
    I'm not sure of the usage - has 30,000 miles on it or so. I will say this - I don't think that "using" the fluid would keep it fresh - I can't think of the mechanical or chemical reasoning behind something like that? I also just performed a restoration on a different car (not a Ferrari) that had been sitting for 37 years. The brake fluid was actually perfectly fine - a little dark, but no worse than I've seen on other cars.

    I think the fluid that Ferrari used on this interacts poorly with something in the system, possibly the plastic in the brake reservoir (pretty much the only thing I can think of in the system that is not used specifically on other cars?). As a result when I refilled the system, I used very basic DOT 3, which is compatible with the system but might have slightly lower performance with respect to heat and boiling. If we tracked the car, then we would swap it out, but the DOT 3 should be more than good for the street.

    Hope this helps,

    Wayne
     
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  17. ysrjunkie

    ysrjunkie Rookie

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    #67 ysrjunkie, Sep 15, 2023
    I am glad to say that the Ford Transit ABS modulator that I ordered used from Spain fit perfectly. No brake fitting adapters necessary. I drove the car and did the electronic bleeding after conventional bleeding and the car drives great. I want to thank @Wayne 962 for trying out the Audi one and giving detailed information on this post. It gave me the confidence to go outside of my comfort zone and try a not Ferrari ABS modulator. Here are some pictures of the one I installed. I did reuse the 360 electronics and transferred it to this hydraulic module. Here are some pictures.
     

    Attached Files:

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  18. Wayne 962

    Wayne 962 Formula Junior
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    #68 Wayne 962, Sep 15, 2023
    Cool deal. That's a great reference. For those getting to the discussion late, the reason why one can't use the Ferrari ones is a) the new part is no longer available and b) one would have no idea if a used one is all gummed up either. It's not possible to open them up to look. Chances are though, that a used Ford one would not have the same gumming problems that the Ferrari ones have (assuming the problem is with the oddball brake fluid that Ferrari used).

    -Wayne
     
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  19. EastMemphis

    EastMemphis Formula 3
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    #69 EastMemphis, Sep 15, 2023
    @ysrjunkie - That's how we keep them alive! Great work. Hope I never need it...
     
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  20. stradalespider

    stradalespider Karting

    Dec 1, 2007
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    #70 stradalespider, Feb 3, 2024
    @Wayne 962 the ports on the Audi one go to different wheels than the Ferrari one. Do you simply plug in the same way, or do you need to match up all of them, moving the lines around?
     
  21. Wayne 962

    Wayne 962 Formula Junior
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    #71 Wayne 962, Feb 4, 2024
    I don't remember the exact details of my analysis, but I believe (don't quote me) that the blocks are identical, and control of the wheels is determined by the computer. So, swapping the computer over onto the Audi block (which should be mechanically the same) would work fine. But again, I'm not 100% sure and this was a year or two ago when I researched this...

    -Wayne
     
  22. garybobileff

    garybobileff Formula 3
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    Feb 5, 2004
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    #72 garybobileff, Feb 5, 2024
    We have cleaned dozens of 360's brake systems because of this problem. It has nothing to do with the type of brake fluid. Cars that we have serviced over the years have annual brake fluid flushes still have this problem. The source of the problem is the composition of the brake bottle., The plastic bottle dissolves and small particles flow down stream and clog every thing up. When the old bottle is removed, you can pick small plastic pieces out from inside of it. Replace the bottle. Then step by step clean out and with air pressure back flow every thing starting at the bottle to master lines, and then move further away from the bottle source. it's been my experience that when this happens, almost every car has a non functioning ABS system, that needs to be back flushed, along with some of the steel lines, as well as caliper bridge pipes. Typically flex hoses feeding the calipers don't seen to be a problem.
    Gary Bobileff
     
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