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Oil Change: filter screen screws

Discussion in '360/430' started by Spurkey, Jul 16, 2017.

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  1. Spurkey

    Spurkey Karting

    Jan 15, 2010
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    Nanaimo, BC
    #1 Spurkey, Jul 16, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    When changing the oil in my F430 I continually have problems removing the 4 tiny screws holding the filter screen flange in. They always seem to require a monumental amount of effort to remove despite being torqued to a small amount when they go in (6 Nm/4.5 ft-lbs/53 in-lbs). Changing the oil again tonight I got only one out before I managed to twist a good spiral into yet another Allen key. I quit for the night before stripping one of the screws.

    Any advice?
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  2. RedTaxi

    RedTaxi F1 Rookie
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    #2 RedTaxi, Jul 17, 2017
    Bit hard to tell from the pic but from memory they are countersink cap heads. They lock on the taper. I have seen smoke and sparks when they "crack" undone. Get better allen keys. Some are too soft and twist. Some are too hard and snap. The trick is to crack them undone with one fast sharp movement. Don't slowly increase pressure.
     
  3. CrazyMD

    CrazyMD Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2012
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    #3 CrazyMD, Jul 17, 2017
    Tap them lightly with a brass hammer and then try to loosen them.


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  4. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
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    #4 mike32, Jul 17, 2017
    Get a matching bit from an socket allen key kit, like the previous post says, give the bit a tap with a small hammer. Once you have them out look to fit some stainless allen screws as a replacement, they are a harder material and the allen key will not chew out the hex.
     
  5. djempire

    djempire Formula Junior

    Apr 30, 2012
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    #5 djempire, Jul 17, 2017
    I had the same issue. A sharp rap to break them loose is good. Or apply some heat.
     
  6. Spurkey

    Spurkey Karting

    Jan 15, 2010
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    #6 Spurkey, Jul 17, 2017
    The problem is that you don't know until you've gotten home that they're garbage... I've got 3 sets of keys, plus a set of socket-drive keys. Stupid socket-drive set stops at 4mm, these allen screws need a 3mm.
    I don't have a lift so using a torch on the engine while lying on my back with minimal escape space has so far kept me from trying that. I'll have to try it when the wife's not watching. :)
     
  7. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

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    #7 mike32, Jul 17, 2017
    Get a paint heat gun to warm them up- the latest 2kw ones come with some metal attacments to direct the heat. About £22 here for a black and decker make. Good allen keys are made by unbreako, but a socket version is best- see if you can source snap on make
     
  8. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
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    #8 Motob, Jul 17, 2017
    A good manual impact driver (you hit it with a hammer) will get them right out. I recommend using a new hex bit with sharp edges. If the inside of the hex bolt is loose/starting to strip, you can hit it with a flat punch, driving the material back towards the center of the fastener until the hex bit is a tight fit. I get it tight enough so I have to tap the hex bit into the fastener.
     
  9. RedTaxi

    RedTaxi F1 Rookie
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    #9 RedTaxi, Jul 17, 2017
    Stainless is considerably softer than the heat treated steel that cap screws are made from.
     
  10. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

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    #10 mike32, Jul 18, 2017
    True, but they dont react with the alloy casting and get jammed in place.
     
  11. RedTaxi

    RedTaxi F1 Rookie
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    #11 RedTaxi, Jul 18, 2017
    Yes that could very well be true. I have experienced hundreds of these screws that will only come undone with a hammer and centre punch. You can barely nip them up one day and the next they will undo with a loud crack and a sore hand.
     
  12. Jgivoo

    Jgivoo Formula Junior
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    #12 Jgivoo, Jul 18, 2017
    Go to amazon and type in 3mm hex socket. There are plenty available
     
  13. Spurkey

    Spurkey Karting

    Jan 15, 2010
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    Nanaimo, BC
    #13 Spurkey, Jul 18, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Indeed there are plenty on Amazon, doesn't mean any of them are any good. Tonight's update: 1 more bent key (bringing the total to 3), 1 twisted socket bit, 2 screws successfully removed, 1 stripped screw, 1 screw left alone. The pink key is a brand new Bondhus hardened key. It is always the smallest jobs that are the most aggravating.

    As for applying heat, how much heat are we talking about here? The cap gets in the way, I assume you're heating up the engine block underneath the cap somehow to get the hole to expand a touch.
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  14. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

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    #14 mike32, Jul 19, 2017
    If you use a nickel based grease on the threads it stops a lot of the problem, i used to work on a seacat fast ferry and we had all sorts of problems with Alluminium and steel fittings corrosion.
     
  15. CrazyMD

    CrazyMD Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2012
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    #15 CrazyMD, Jul 20, 2017
    Did you try tapping them with a brass hammer? That always loosens them up


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  16. Aeroman

    Aeroman Karting
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    #16 Aeroman, Jul 20, 2017
    I spoke to my Metallurgist and he recommended a corrosion inhibitor that meets MIL-PRF-16173, Grade 2. There is a commercially available product call LPS2 that comes in a spray can that meets this specification. He recommended to coat the bolt threads and the shoulder of the bolt to prevent moisture penetration.
     
  17. Spurkey

    Spurkey Karting

    Jan 15, 2010
    54
    Nanaimo, BC
    #17 Spurkey, Jul 20, 2017
    I tried tapping them with a hammer, yeah, all I had nearby was a claw hammer. I applied heat using a propane plumber's torch for about a minute to the general area of the screw I was working on, gave it 3 or 4 medium taps with the hammer, then tried to undo it.
    Thanks for the info, there are a few local distributors that claim to carry that stuff I'll see if I can find some. Also: you have a metallurgist?! Man, I didn't know that was a thing one could get in life, I have so many questions... ;):)
     
  18. Aeroman

    Aeroman Karting
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    #18 Aeroman, Jul 20, 2017
    Well, it's not like I bought and paid for him....that would be sooooo wrong. Besides, I couldn't afford to feed him.

    If you google that MIL spec, you will find places you can order the LPS2. Or LPS3. Apparently, it's just thicker.
     

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