Oil Leak - Need Technical Help

I recently noticed an oil leak under the car and the fluid appeared to be pinkish in color. Initially I thought it was hydraulic fluid.

I took it to a shop and they performed a Die Trace of engine and hydraulic fluid and they believe it is leaking either from the cam-covers or the timing belt housing.

The bad news, is that, in order to correct the problem, I was told the engine needs to come out.

Can anyone confirm if the engine indeed need to come out to replace the cam-cover or timing housing cover?

 

For a camshaft seal leak I haven't heard of the engine needing to come out. You can take the top covers off and it's all right there. Whether the belts should be done is up to you at the same time. If it is the camshaft seals as they suspect.

Reddish fluid could also be steering fluid. The reservoir is above the camshafts.

Timing belt housings do not have seals. Valve covers can be removed in the car.

Now I'm not sure where and to whom you took it. But I'd be VERY suspicious if someone told me the engine needs to come out. I'd have them tell me WHY the engien needed to be removed and what the procedure was to replace the seal they're intending. You haven't provided us very much information so I'm sorry I can't help you further.
Can you describe where the oil was leaking from? Was it underneath the car in the middle of the car or to the back? When you woudl shine a flashlight into the engine bay..on the bottom plastic did you see any? How bad is the leak? Did they take the panel behind the seats out?

 

Totally agree and would strongly advise getting a second opinion.

I just had leaking cam cover seals repaired and belts and tensioners replaced on my 360 Spider last month at Ferrari of Seattle and the engine did not have to come out of the car.

Additionally, in my case the previous owner had the timing belts replaced less than 18 months earlier, but did so at an independent shop that didn't perform the service correctly. Consequently, if whoever's telling you the engine needs to come out doesn't know what they're doing, you might find yourself repairing their repairs before the year is out.

 

Thanks for the responses.

The fluid was definitely pinkish in color and after reading the forums I was pretty sure it was hydraulic fluid. However, the shop told me that they checked the power steering and it was OK.

The leak was also towards the middle of the car where the hydraulic fluid reservoir is located.

It is not a very big leak, but as you know it is annoying. I am definitely talking the car to a Ferrari specialist or better off to a dealer for second opinion. I am a year away from doing the timing belt change, so I will wait till then.

In the mean time I will take a closer look and see if I can detect the leak myself.

 

If the F1 fluid tank is overfilled, she will puke the excess over the side, looking very much like a leak. F1 fluid is glorified synthetic ATF.

If you do not have one, download a 360 workshop manual for free from ferraridatabase.com. The Spider WSM is updated over the 1999 coupe version.

 

You do not need to take out the engine to replace the cam cover gaskets. Just remove the undertray and you have got full access to it.

I've included some pictures for your reference, including the part number of the gaskets to order. Took me around 2hours to get it done. The time consuming part was removing the old gaskets very carefully, without scratching the surfaces.

good luck and let us know the diagnostics of your leak issues.
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Guys that was very informative indeed. I will take the car from the shop and time permitting I will start working on it.

I may need some more help as I go along. I will keep in touch.

 

FYI... The only reservoir of "hydraulic fluid" in the middle of the car is the steering fluid. If the car is an F1, depending on where the leak is in the middle of the car ( midline or roughly behind the seats) it could be a slow leak of hydraulic fluid from the clutch as the F1 system uses the same fluid for the clutch actuation. And the reservoir for the F1 luid is in the right behind the right rear wheel in the engine compartment.

Good luck with the search.

 

Those are not cam cover gaskets. Those are just the end covers.

Much easier just to lean over the back to do it. 20 minute job that way.

 

Could it be the AC compressor leaking ?

 

With a belly pan there is no correlation between where the oil comes from and where it gets out.

 

1. Take belly pan off.
2. Clean engine around suspected leak area (carefully)
3. Drive vehicle for 10-20min
4. Reinspect cleaned area for source of leaks. Take pics and post.

*remember not to just hose down your engine bay, nothing good will come of it, and maybe bad things will.
**If you use a degreaser; only when engine is cold, leave on for a short duration, scrub with engine brush (any auto store), rinse. If left too long it can cause unwanted effects.

 

How big of a job is to take out the belly pan. I know that it needs to be taken out.

The oil leaked from around the rubber gasket (in the belly pan), which is the area where the engine drain plug is located. I think that is the only open area where it can leak out. So with the belly pan in place, it is impossible to diagnose the problem correctly.

I will pick up the car form the shop this Friday and I will have a chance to talk to the guys there and see what their finding was.

I will keep you posted. Thank you all for the input.

 

On a four-post lift, not a big deal. On the floor or a two-post lift, a big hassle.

 

I put the rear 2 wheels on a ramp stands via Jacking (not driving), then remove jack, then I can remove the pan. (use jack stands for safety).

Jacking the vehicle is 90% of the work, removing the pan is just a handful of 10mm bolts.

Image of it attached. (I really miss my old garage, even though it was small)
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Could be front crank oil seal leaking with oil running on tray exiting where you see it - though that would obviously be engine oil... I did the front-crank seal on my 360 Challenge from inside the cabin (with car on ground and undertray on). Was in a pinch without good access to a lift... Doable but a pain. Ferrari tech walking me through all the steps (and convincing me it was possbile this way) was key. I would not have thought it could be done without getting car on a lift or good access from underneath.
Jes

 

Trent
I need to get a pair of those ramps.
Alan

 

I grabbed them on Amazon for ~$50

Blitz Rhino Ramp 12000 : Amazon.com : Automotive

or

RhinoGear 11912 RhinoRamps MAX Vehicle Ramps (Pair, 16, 000lb. GVW Capacity) : Amazon.com : Automotive

**Remember not to try and drive on to them, just jack up car and slide them under, then lower car. I damaged a car many years ago by "spitting" out the ramps.

 

Guys this redneck just drives his 360 up on them backwards via the rear tires. I them use my Dewalt driver with a 10mm bit and have the bolts off in 5 minutes. I then go in the back and drop the pan and slide it forward and outward between the wheels. Then inspect it.

 

I bet I can beat you with my Race jack! You have to pull forward, get out, position ramps, then back on to them. My car is already in place, I just jack and slide ramp L, then jack and slide ramp R.

Either way is fine if precautions are taken..

 

I do not think I am brave enought to drive the car on the ramps. Jacking it up and sliding the ramps in will be my preferred choice

 

I'd be up to the challenge.. but some other challenge would have to be added to complete the automotive biathlon.. perhaps carb tuning or an empty tire toss.

 

Maybe you can explain why a carbo-hydrate would need to be tuned? Maybe a fitness reference? Or maybe you are referring to some old antiquated automotive technology?

In some seriousness; I would be happy to shoot a video of me getting the F430 on ramps using an aluminum race jack, two Rhino ramps, 4x jackstands, 1x beer, a paperclip, rabbit and one can of whipped cream.

I bet it can be done in <2min flat, assuming the beer is already open and I can figure out what to do with the rabbit and can of whipped cream.